[Avodah] Are We to Humiliate Sinners as Mitzvah Tochacha?

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Sep 09, 2025 at 05:57:50PM -0500, Brent Kaufman via Avodah wrote:
>> the commandment is for us to admonish our fellow Jew, not to bring
>> about his or her repentance

> This is an important statement, but is it accurate? Is this splitting hairs
> or is our mitzvah truly detached from the other guy's need to do teshuva?

It can't be obligatory, as it's up to the other person to choose to
do teshuvah or not.

But, tokhachah requires that teshuvah be possible, with caveats to
follow:

    And R Ila'a said besheim R Elazar ben R Shimon: Just as it is a
    mitzvah for a person to say something which will be listened to,
    so is it a mitzva for a person not to say something which will not
    be listened to.
    R Abba says: It is a chiyuv [in the latter case to stay quiet],
    as it says: "Do not give tokhachah a leitz lest he hate you; give
    tokhachah to a chakham and he will love you." (Mishlei 9:8)

The Rama (OC 428:2) discusses "mutav sheyihyu shogegim" and based on the
Rosh and the Ran holds that this is only mitzvos derived by derashah or
altogether derabbanan.

Personally, I am not sure how we just assume this distinction still holds
now that the major apostacy is no longer Tzeduqim nor Qaraim. But it
does.

Still, the majority of dinim would be mutav sheyihyu shogegim.

However, there is another the caveat, the possibility of teshuvah need
not be that of the sinner in front of you. But there are times one is
obligated to make a macha'ah, a public warning to be careful not to
be influenced by this bad example. (Shabbos 54b) Again, if there is a
likelihood that the masses will listen. And if one stays silent, they
share culpability for the sin. Rav, R Chanina, R Yochana and R Chaviva
quote someone we are told is R Yonasan [although they say R Yochanan] who
uses the word "kol mi she'efeshar. The gemara's cases are one's family,
or if one has some level of leadership in the community that one would
be speaking to. But even if he can influence "bekhol ha'olam kulo -
nispas al kol ha'olam kulo".

Tokhachah when aimed at the sinner should be betzin'ah. Both because
doing it publicly is embarassing them when it could be avoided, and
because strategically by minimizing the chance of defensiveness. But
a macha'ah would be in public, because it is to the population.

Chodesh Tov!
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Worrying is like a rocking chair:
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   it gives you something to do for a while,
Author: Widen Your Tent      but in the end it gets you nowhere.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF