[Avodah] violation results

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Apr 02, 2025 at 10:24:41AM +0300, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> When the gemara correlates certain violations with certain results, other
> than just saying it's a violation (eg not washing ntilat yadaim resulting
> in poverty), is it positing a value judgement on a level of the violation,
> existential cause and effect, a rational cause and effect (eg personality
> proclivities) or something else?

Why need it be the same thing each time?

And are these necessarily different things? If something has negative
consequences, then it would make sense for us to be told not to do
them, and both of those factors -- that (1) the act is damaging and (2)
to do it is also to ignore the Manufacturer's intructions -- impart a
negative value.

--

In general, it's pretty arbitrary to say whether sekhar va'onesh
were built into the system, like getting burned by touching a stove,
or a Divine response to the act. The different boils down to a Divine
"When"; was the onesh decided upon during Bereishis or just now after you
acted? And since He is "lemaalah min hateva" there is no Divine "When".

So, how you view it may boil down to strategic concerns. Which perspective
fits one's motive for teshuvah. If it's about my fixing the personal
flaw that caused my to act that way, then perhaps the Causative approach
would be more useful. It it's about my relationship with the Borei,
then perhaps it may pay to view it as Hashem's Response.

--

A warning about causation.... An event doesn't follow from a single
chain of cause-and-effect.

To pull out my usual example again, Conservation of Momentum. Aristotle
didn't have the idea. Instead of momentum, in his theory intellects
imparted impetus to objects, and then the objects were in motion until
the impetus ran out. And his model matched experience. After all, in
real world examples, there is always friction with the floor, gravity,
wind drag, forces that take momentum out of the object. While it is true
that "A body in motion at a constant velocity will remain in motion in a
straight line unless acted upon by an outside force." But only astronauts
have ever experienced an object having no or negligable outside forces.

And I think we need to take rabbinic statements about sekhar va'onesh
similarly. The mitzvah of mezuzah is rewarded with protection. Eating
treif causes timtum haleiv. But there is, more often than that, other
chains of cause and effect converging at that same moment. Always outside
forces acting on the body. So the law may not be all that observable,
even if true.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 9th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   1 week and 2 days in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Gevurah sheb'Gevurah: When is strict justice
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                          most appropriate?