[Avodah] permanent mutav sheyihiyu shogegin

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2025 at 05:53:39AM +0200, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> How should we feel about seemingly permanent mutav sheyihiyu shogegin (e.g.
> allowing rhythmic table drumming on shabbat according to some authorities.)

Is that mutav sheyihyu shogegin? The Rama OC 339:3 then follows with a
veyeish omerim (citing Tosafos) that it's mutar because there is a limit
to how far we would take shema yetaqein keli in an era where musicians
don't generally repair their own instruments mid-performance.

(A metzi'us I would question, having seen violins and guitars being tuned
or even restrung between songs. But going with Tosafos for the bit...)

Is the Rama saying the stam shitah that no one is objective because
MSS, and then Tosafos's shitah that it's allowed? In which case, you
would be correct even for Ashkenazim.

But I thoughtt the Rama is adding Tosafos's shitah to the reason he holds
one shouldn't tell them to stop -- they won't anyway and we aren't even
sure it's assur.

There is also a third way to read it. Often the Rama agrees with the
Mechaber but adds "veyeish omerim" or "veyeish matirim" or the like as
his way of saying that lemaaseh Ashkenazim don't follow the Mechaber.
And in those cases, it's not stam vs yeish omerim, but Sephard vs
Ashkenaz.

Or, you could well be right. I just want to keep the question open,
rather than accept your given.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Worrying is like a rocking chair:
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   it gives you something to do for a while,
Author: Widen Your Tent      but in the end it gets you nowhere.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF