[Avodah] Kamtza /Bar Kamtza

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 8:36pm EDT, R Joel Rich wrote:
> Response to a piece on Kamtza /Bar Kamtza:
> The interesting question to me is whether there is self-awareness...
> s                            and, if so, wonder how you convince anybody to
> step outside themselves and realize that they are rationalization a deeper
> personality issue....

This is why a Cheshbon haNefesh is so critical.

Aside from the things the ChN itself turns up, doing one regularly means
practicing reassessing your reactions and responses on a regular basis.
Developing a habit of taking time to look at your thoughts as though from
the outside.


On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 1:43am GMT, R Joseph Kaplan replied to RJR:
>>                    This is especially true for leaders who are put on a
>> pedestal IMHO.

> I think Joel hits the nail in his penultimate sentence...

Like the gemara (Horiyos 10b) on "Asher nasi yechta" (Vayiqra 4:22):
    Ashrei is the generation whose nasi pays attention to bring a
    kaparah on his shegogis, and qal vachomer on his zedonos.
(And to make sure you don't miss it, Rashi on the pasuq says "Asher
- lashon ashrei". The gemara is working of the unique word choice
for "when" or "if". Contrast to ve'im in pesuqim 1:13.)

> I used to blame RZVA for the churban, but in this regard he's behind two
> groups of chachamim: those who attended the party and were silent when
> Bar Kamtza was insulted and those who were silent when RZBA made his
> decision and didn't take whatever actions were necessary to ensure that
> such detrimental decisions were not permitted to stand.

According to the version in Eikhah Rabba 4:3 RZbA's involvement in the
story starts when he was one of the rabbanim, perhaps the leading figure,
at the party and because of the same anvanus, didn't speak up.

(I think historians agree that Eikhah Rabba 4 is about the same age as
Talmud Bavli. Zunz [whoever he was] points out that there must have been a
couple of later insertions, but I don't think this story is on the list.)

Tangent: I think there is a point here being made by the use of the word
"anvanus", literally "humble person-ness" rather than "anavah" = humility.
Moshe was anav me'od mikol adam, and I know that because he didn't balk
when Hashem had him record that fact for me. Being an anav, if one is
doing it right, doesn't cause inaction.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 When faced with a decision ask yourself,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   "How would I decide if it were Ne'ilah now,
Author: Widen Your Tent      at the closing moments of Yom Kippur?"
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                          - Rav Yisrael Salanter