[Avodah] Kol DePorish MeRubbah Porish

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, Sep 08, 2024 at 12:58:01AM +1000, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
> The classic case of KaVuA is where Chaim enters a butcher shop
> 1 of 10 in the city
> 9 of which are K and one is non-K

The stores are niqarim, so they are qavu'os. Since, according to the cited
Tosafos, one is the cause of the other. And I believe R Aqiva Eiget gives
a solid explanation why.

...
> Now in what sense and at what time
> Are the snags not Nikker?

You still have things backwards. Since the store *IS* niqar, the meat is
qavua.

> R Micha also advises that RAE [Tesh 136] defines qavua

As in our conversation about murder, rather than repeat myself yet again,
I recomment looking at the cited sources yourself. Clearly my presentation
of them isn't making an impression.

..
> I think R Micha means to say
> Rov applies when those who find it
> NEVER knew/could have known its true status
> Qavua applies when those who have it
> KNEW or could have known its status

That's exactly what RAE says, yes. Rov is a rule for determining the
halakhah when the metzi'us isn't known. If the halakhah was ever
established (qavua) becuase the metzi'us was known then, we are in a
situation where the present doubt is in halakhah, not metzi'us, and
rov doesn't work then.

> R Micha's you describe
> Safeiq in metzi'us vs safeiq in din
> to differentiate KaVua fron Kol DePorish
> Is it not simpler and more elegant to say
> One is a TaAroves -- that is Kol DePorish and we follow the majority
> It is as though all the shops are unidentified and mixed

Same thing as the distinction I was making about niqar. It isn't simpler
and more elegant. The situation is that one is a mixture and one is known
entities. RAE explains *why* rov works for one and not the other.

By the way, your explanation of rov has to work for ruba deleisa leqaman
too. Not a literal mixed set, but a hypothetical one, the "mixture" of all
meat in the area or something. And then, why is this set a taaroves, but
the set of meat from known (niqar) stores not?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

--
Micha Berger                 Between stimulus & response, there is a space.
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   In that space is our power to choose our
Author: Widen Your Tent      response. In our response lies our growth
-- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    and our freedom. -- Victor Frankl, (MSfM)