[Avodah] editorial intent

Micha Berger micha at aishdas.org
Tue Jun 4 14:22:58 PDT 2024

On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 05:50:07AM +0300, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> Chulin [107a] a tells separately of rav yakov and rav ashi who posed rivit
> sized containers (one glass, one clay) so that (per Rashi) people could
> measure their own containers (for hand washing purposes)...

The gemara says Rav Ashi beHutzal. Shaarei Toras Bavel says it must mean
R Asi, since he was the one in Hutzal. (See Chullin 26b, Qiddushin 58b)

R Yaaqov from Nahar Peqod made a natla.
R Ashi / Asi in Hutzal made a kuza.
Both -- which would hold a revi'is.

The differences, other than the amora's identity:
    - RY is mi-, from, a place; RA is in it.
    - RY made a natla; RA made a kuza

I don't know what the differences mean. I just have an intuition that
that's where the answer lies.

Looking at Jastrow:
A natla is a utensil made for pouring -- like a netilas yadayim cup
or a ladle. The Tosafos YT (Berakhos 8:2) says the berakhah "al netilas
yadayim" take the name from the keli.

A kuza is a pitcher of a jug, typicaly found in the context of serving wine.
(Shabbos 77b)

And, as RJR writes, The Tosafos YT and R Shteinzaltz assume a natla is
made of glass, and a kuza, of earthenware. Rabbeinu Gershom also says
a kuza in earthenware, but nothing about what a natla is made of. From
what I saw, wine storage was in earthenware, so that part fits with what
I've seen at archological sites.

I think the fact that well-known Amoraim are called by their place is
significant. I find RA being beHutzal easier to understand. He was making
a model washing cump for the people of Hutzal. But why was RY described
as being "mei-"?

And RY making as a model for others to copy a natla, the stereotypical
washing cup, also makes sense. Why was R Ashi's model a vessel usually
associated with wine? As RA makinga model for other purposes, a revi'is as
per defining shetiyah for berakhos or a taanis?

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger                 Today is the 42nd day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   6 weeks in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Malchus sheb'Yesod: Why is self-control and
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF     reliability crucial for universal brotherhood?

More information about the Avodah mailing list