[Avodah] rolling a sefer torah

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Sep 05, 2023 at 05:37:34PM -0400, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> Interesting magen avraham (O"C 144:7) concerning rolling a sefer torah if
> you took out the wrong one....

Is that the case? The SA (se'if 3) talks about taking out two sifrei Torah
and not rolling, but if the minyan only has one, the derabbanan of Maftir
is docheh kevod hatzibbur.

The MA's dibur hamaschil is "veyidcheh kevod hatzibbur".

The idea of dechiyah is easier for me to understand than the MA's idea
"mistamah mochalim al kevodim" in order to do the mitzvah. (And the MB
s"q 16 echoes the MA.)

But, it allows the MA to distinguish between a shul which doesn't role
unless it has only one seifer and the BHMQ on Yom Kippur. On YK in
the BHMQ, the kohein gadol read and will read parts by heart to save
time rather than make the whole tzibbur wait. A different compropromise
mipenei kevod hatzibbur. Apparenltly "all" of Israel aren't mochalim,
but a shul is.

>                                                                How do you
> understand this mistama? Is it a best estimate of what survey would reveal?
> (if so why not just ask?), a projection of what chazal assume people would
> do if they knew what chazal wanted of them? A descriptive explanation
> rather than a prescriptive case? Something else?

Doesn't "mistama" always mean "we can assume" if there is no proof
to the contrary. In the "stam" case. I wonder if this means that if
the vast majority of the tzibbur insist on skipping maftir rather than
wait for the sefer Torah to be rolled, the gabbai and baal qeri'ah must
skip maftir because it's no longer mistama, and they are obligated in
kibud hatzibbur. And then not laining maftir (or Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh,
Chanukah's shevi'i) is on the objectors' accounts.

The AhS doesn't mention the MA explicitly, but he says (se'if 6) that
"anan sehadei shemochalim". He also may be saying that the tzibbur in
the BHMQ aren't machalim because they cannot be. At least, he invokes
the idea that "mipenei shehayo kol Yisrael... uman machil?"

So, descriptive, but only of what Chazal expect is typical enough of a
qehillah that we take it for granted. And not of every tzibbur.

Notice, though, that the MA implies that a tzibbur in a shul is owned
by the people in the room, and they have the power to be mochalim their
kavod. In contrast to saying it is a unit of the nation's kavod hatzibbur,
owned by more people than those in the room. And that would open the
door to arguing that if the only reason why a woman cannot lein is kevod
hatzibbur, a tzibbur could choose to be mochalim there too.

(Or perhaps the motzi laaz of implying the none of the benei chiyuvah
could lein is a different kind of kavod, one that can't be machul?)


Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Man is capable of changing the world for the
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   better if possible, and of changing himself for
Author: Widen Your Tent      the better if necessary.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF          - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning