[Avodah] your brother? and Re: gedolim

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 12:40pm (British), Chana Luntz wrote:
> RJR wrote:
>>                       Of course, I am not God's accountant, but it doesn't
>> seem that the reward for learning Torah in that case would be transferable,
>> except perhaps to the extent that more people attend due to the dedication.
>> I have to wonder though do any local Rabbis point that out to sponsors?

>          ,,, The Gemara would seem to clearly contemplate that the reward
> for learning Torah specifically is transferable to/shared with the wives and
> mothers of those doing the learning (even ones that commit adultery)...

The "shared" side of your "transferable to/shared" dichotomy would be
consistent with RJR's point. So it is possible to say that zekhus isn't
transferable and still be consistent with the gemara and the apologetics
built upon it.

On Wed, May 03, 2023 at 1:38pm (Israel), Joel Rich wrote:
> Rambam Sanhedrin 17:7 says:
>     Whenever a person sins and is lashed, he returns to his original
>     state of acceptability, as implied by the verse: "And your brother
>     will be degraded before your eyes." Once he is lashed, he is "your
>     brother." Similarly, all those obligated for *kerait* who received
>     lashes are absolved for *kerait*.


> Question-
> Does this mean that in shamayim (as well as here), it's as if he never
> did the original sin? If not, how do we/HKBH view the individual pre
> and post lashes?

I think this gets to the heart of zekhus and how it relates to sekhar
va'onesh.

In the leining for RH, Yishma'el gets spared because he is judged
"ba'asher hu sham". Not for what he did, and certainly not for what he
and his descendents will do, but for the state of his soul and psyche
in that moment.

To the extent that the person unwound the personal damage caused by the
sin, they shouldn't be punished for it. And if getting caught and getting
malkos causes regret, pushes someone further from repeating that kind of
action or heading down that road in general, then there is nothing left
for the kareis to address.

See RYBS in Al haTeshuvah who is medayeiq in Hil' Teshuvah 1:2 and
concludes, "the Baal Teshuvah says that he is a new man; the man who
performed the sin no longer exists."

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi (Ymi RH 1:3, vilna 7b) points out the tense in a
pasuq in Iyov, "im zakhar veyashar atah, ki atah ya'ir alakha..." Bildad
does not say "hayisa", if you were pure and honest, but rather "atah"
if this description fits you now.

Which is why I cannot embrace the idea of reward being transferable. A
person who supported learning didn't become the "asher hu sham" of the
person who learned. Just as the person who learned didn't have the same
impact on their souls as the person who forked over money they already
felt was "theirs".

There is a lot more along these lines in my Yamim Noraim Reader, the
section on the mechanics of teshuvah.
http://www.aishdas.org/10YemeiTeshuvah.pdf 

There I provide more sources from p' Nitzavim, Eikhah (and Rashi ad loc),
the Ikkaqim, Rabbeinu Yonah, the Ramchal, R Chaim Volozhiner, REED.

Mitzvos cause refinement which cause sekhar. And just as the refinement
of one's Tzelem Elokim isn't fungible, I canot see how sekhar or zekhus
could be.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The day you were born is the day G-d decided
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   that the world could not exist without you.
Author: Widen Your Tent                  - Rav Nachman of Breslov
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF