[Avodah] taker but not giver

[Micha Berger]

On Sat, Feb 04, 2023 at 09:31:21PM -0700, Meir Shinnar via Avodah wrote:
> > Except that R Aharon Lichtenstein's argument that "darkhei shalom" isn't
> > about "practical considerations" is pretty compelling.

> > Rambam (Hilkhos Melahim 10:12):
...
> > Darkhei Shalom is nothing less fundamental than the fulfilment of
> > emulating the Borei and following the ways of the Torah.

> > ...

> I fully agree with Micha, R Lichtenstein and Rav Wolbe about ikkar
> hadin. However, no one who follows R Lichtenstein would have supported
> the position of those who thought that the ambulance service should
> not serve non Jews on shabbat...

I was viewing my point differently.

R Lichestein's argument is compelling. There is no way to understand
the Rambam as talking about "darkhei shalom" as a peace-keeping thing.
Similarly when "darkei shalom" is used in other contexts. Like we
don't give a kohein the first aliyah as a survival strategy. (And so on
through Gittin.)

So, it seems to me that our being taught as kids that "darkhei shalom"
was permission to violate Shabbos because otherwise an anti-semite may
someday kill one of us is simply part of the problem. Chazal's idiom is
being misinterpreted because the people speaking can't believe Chazal
would give such value to doing what's right when it comes to nakhriim.

There is no reason to concede the point about darkhei shalom while
fighting about bone marrow donation. It's all the same error.

On Fri, Feb 03, 2023 at 02:06:00PM -0500, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> R Micha's response surely shows the importance of good relations with our
> non-Jewish neighbors, but does that argument rise to the level of
> justifying Chilul Shabbos?

I don't understand the question. I didn't raise a new consideration. I
am pointig out the the very consideration already under discussion in
hilkhos Shabbos.

The halakhah is that we are mechalel Shabbos for darkhei shalom. Since
darkhei shalom means emulating the One Who shehashalom shelo, and
fulfilling vekhol nesivoseha shalom, then yes, of course, the halakhah
is saying that having peaceful relations rises to the level of being
dokheh Shabbos.

Although our original topic was bone marrow donation on a weekday, no?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The thought of happiness that comes from outside
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   the person, brings him sadness. But realizing
Author: Widen Your Tent      the value of one's will and the freedom brought
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    by uplifting its, brings great joy. - R' Kook