[Avodah] bracha rishona

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Mar 08, 2023 at 05:52:04AM +0200, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> If a society always eats dessert as part of a meal, do they make a bracha
> rishona on the dessert before birchat hamazon?

You've hit a trigger for me. Because I am still wondering about a more
fundamental version of the question:

If a society no longer eat the majority of their food by using flatbread
as "cutlery", why does HaMotzi cover all the foods in the meal that would
otherwise have gotten other berakhos?

The whole concept of meat being "liftan" is not how we eat today.

The reason why deserts are different is not because they are optional, but
because they were not typically eaten on breat. Same thing with that fruit
you had as appetizer. Parperes is only included if you actually do force
its icludion by eating it on bread. But liftan is included by default
based on norms

We altogether aren't qov'in se'udah the way the gemara assumes. So every
time questions like this one are raised on list, I need to back up the
conversation a step...

Tell me how do the rules work nowadays at all. When do we follow
the gemara's rulings, and when do we follow the sevara that led to
them. Because my understanding is that today's metzi'us doesn't get you
from that sevara to the whole idea of HaMotzi covering core of the meal.

And then I could participate in a search to see how deserts that are a
taken-for-granted part of the meal should be treated.


-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
http://www.aishdas.org/asp    'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
Author: Widen Your Tent       'And whoever does more, he is praiseworthy.'"
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                   - Rav Dovid Lifshitz zt"l