[Avodah] Women Davening

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 02:18:39AM -0000, Chana Luntz via Avodah wrote:
> RMB writes:
>> The AhS discusses this (OC 89:1-...). Kedarko beqodesh when it's hard to
>> understand where the common practice came from, he tries figuring out whose
>> shitah (or combination of shitos) we must be holding like.

> Bit puzzled why you quote OC89:1 and presumably OC89:2 without referring to
> OC106:5-7.  


>> The AhS holds when the mishnah (Berakhos 3:1, on 17b) says that women are
>> peturos from Shema and Tefillin but are chayavos in Tefillah and Mezuzah, it
>> means only when davening in distress. Not the usual tefillas qavua.
>> Even according to the Rambam (Hil' Tefillah 1:2), the obligation on women
>> daily would not be 3 times a day nor any fixed siddur. Because that
>> derabbanan layer is shehazman gerama.

> Where does the AhS say this?  Rather It seems to me that his conclusion in
> OC 106:7 is as follows: ...

This relates to what you noted earlier, that I focused on OC 89 as RYME's
primary discussion of the topic. But you're right -- his discussion of women
while introducing the chiyuv was more of a tangent.

But look again at 86:1, starting at "lefichach". RYME gives shitas
haRambam and that ends with:
    Therefore, women and slaves are obligated in Tefillah, because it is
    a mitzvas asei SHELO hazman gerama.
    But the chiyuv of this mitzvah is like this: that a person is
    mishchanein umispalel every day, and tells of the praises of HQBH,
    and then asks for all of his needs that he needs to in a baqashah
    in a techinah, and then gives praise and thanks to H' for the Good
    which He was mashpia on him. Each according to their potential
    (koach). Ad kan leshon haRambam.

The chiyuv tefillah that falls on women is freeform, "kol echad lefi
koch[ah]".

More on this after the next quote, since I gave details I remembered from
learning 106:7, even though I didnt look it up for this post.

>> So, a woman could say a couple of sentences of her own devise, or from a
>> Tehillim or from a Tekhines Buch, and be yotzeit. Say Modeh Ani? Make
>> berakhos? The only real risk of missing their chiyuv to daven or qabbalas ol
>> malkhus Shamayim ("Melekh Chai veQayam...", "... Melekh ha'olam...") is if
>> they say it without qavvanah.

> This is the limud zechus of the Magen Avraham (as further expounded by Rav
> Artscroll)....

I think this is a misunderstanding of the AhS's approach to pesaq.
To RYME, this is not a "limud zekhus".

At times he has limudei zekhus, and he labels them as such.

A lot more often, something else is in play -- he actually holds that
common practice is an indication of what shitah became law. This is why
so many associate his pesaqim with "mimeticism".

Like here (106:7), where he offers "two teirutzim", and makes sure
to repeat them so you see there is an answer whether we hold like the
Rambam or the Levush. He does find the answer for Rashi or Tosafos's
shitah is logically a "dochaq", but "yeish leyasheiv" and "lehaRiv ve
haRambam *asi shapir*.

And so yes, unsurprisingly he reaches the same conclusion in OC 106:7
(in the closing parenthetic) as he already said in 89.

(BTW, speaking of learning 89 and 106... AhS Yomi is currently in OC 651,
with a siyum on OC scheduled for March 7th. Then we skip over shechitah
and tereifos to YD 86 and blood spots in eggs, followed by basar vechalav,
etc...

(In any case, shows you how long it's been since I was actively learning
the material under discussion.)

Chodesh Tov!
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The first step towards getting somewhere is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   to decide that you are not going
Author: Widen Your Tent      to stay where you are.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                 - JP Morgan