[Avodah] Moving to EY

[Various People to Areivim]

Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 17:32:45 +0000
From: "Prof. L. Levine via Areivim" <areivim at lists.aishdas.org>

From
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/owning-israel-or-belonging-to-it-parshat-chaye-sara/

Just as Abraham's time in the land was tenuous, the rabbis repeatedly
remind the Jews that arrogance about their permanence in the land is risky
(Chayei Sarah)

The Ramban (Nachmanides) tells us in his first comment to the book of
Genesis that the stories of the expulsion from the Garden of Eden, and
the eradication of humanity at the time of the flood, and the dispersion
of the population in the wake of the building of the Tower of Babel,
all come to warn the Jewish people (and explain to the gentiles) that
our connection to the land is contingent.

<Snip>

Over the generations, fundamental texts and great thinkers (many others
could be garnered) have called upon us to revisit the moment immediately
before the first parcel of the land of Israel passed into our control. The
sense of tenuousness that was inherent at that point in Jewish history
was to be recalled at other moments when this sense might come less
naturally but still be appropriate.

Perhaps when speaking of the Jewish people's relationship to the Land of
Israel, we should speak of Jews belonging to the land more than the land
belonging to us. It seems to me that this type of discourse reflects
a major impulse in our tradition that clashes with certain crude and
jingoistic platitudes that are becoming more prevalent in the current
political climate.


__________________________________________________________


Let me add that in Shema we say twice a day "Take care not to be lured
away to serve other gods and bow to them. For the LORD's anger will
flare up against you, and He will shut up the skies so that there will
be no rain and the ground will not yield its produce; and you will soon
perish from the good land that the LORD is assigning to you."


Is it not true that living in Israel is contingent upon Torah observance?
Are not the non-religious Jews living there today weakening our right
to live in the land?

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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 07:41:53 +0200
From: Marty Bluke via Areivim <areivim at lists.aishdas.org>

Living in Israel is a Mitzva min hatorah according to many rishonim and if
not is a Mitzva drabbanan. You pick up on one aggadta and based on that
don't want to be mekayem a Mitzva? A person is supposed to have kavana in
tefila. The assumption in the poskim is that today we lack in kavana (
therefore for example we don't daven a tefilas nedava). Yet we still daven
3 times a day.

Intentions/kavanos are very nice for holy people, however for us regular
people all we have is the 4 cubits of Halacha which says that there is a
Mitzva to live in Israel.

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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:18:29 +0200
From: Marty Bluke via Areivim <areivim at lists.aishdas.org>

Before making derogatory remarks about Eretz Yisrael please read the
following gemara in Kesubos 122b:

R. Abba used to kiss the cliffs of Akko.R. Hanina used to repair its roads.R.
Ammi and R. Assi used to rise [from their seats to move] from the sun to
the shade and from the shade to the sun. R. Hiyya b. Gamda rolled himself
in its dust, for it is said in Scripture, For Thy servants take pleasure in
her stones, and love her dust.

Rashi explains the reason they did this is so that no one would have a
reason to say a bad thing about Eretz Yisrael/

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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 07:58:41 +0200
From: Marty Bluke via Areivim <areivim at lists.aishdas.org>

Here is another example. There were/are certain chasidishe Rebbes who spend
hours preparing to daven and therefore daven after the zman tefila. Why?
Because they feel they can't daven without the proper preparations which
overrides the zman. Do they advocate this for everyone? Of course not, the
regular person needs to follow the Halacha. The same applies here. Are we
on the level of Rav Zera to make these kinds of calculations as to whether
to be makeyem a Mitzva? Absolutely not.

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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 08:08:02 +0200
From: Marty Bluke via Areivim <areivim at lists.aishdas.org>

Last point. Is the aggadic statement of Rav Zera quoted by ANYONE lhakacha?
Not that I know of. It doesnt appear in the Rambam, Rif, Rosh shulchan
Aruch. Since when do we pasken anything based on a single aggadic statement?

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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:29:44 +0000
From: "Prof. L. Levine via Areivim" <areivim at lists.aishdas.org>

R. Joseph Kaplan wrote:
> Prof. Levine tells us about Rav Zeris (" He (Rav or Rabi Zeira I)
> did not leave for the Land of Israel until he had a favorable dream
> that showed him that any possible sins of his were already forgiven;
> therefore, he was worthy of living in the Holy Land.") and then asks:

>> I have never heard of anyone considering making Aliyah have Ravi Zeira's
>> approach in mind. Have you? I wonder why

I don't know (I'm pretty sure no one actually knows), but my guess is
that Rav Zeira's approach is not followed, at least today, is that very
few people base important life decisions on dreams.

WADR,I think you have completely missed the point of this story, and
why I posted it.. The point is that before moving to EY Rav Zeira I was
concerned that he might not be on the proper spiritual level to live
there. EY has Kedusha and, as Rav Dovid Kronglass told me many years ago,
"You do not just go to EY. You must be on the proper spiritual level to
live there."

It is the fact that people do not take this consideration inro account
when considering moving to EY that I wondered about. The fact that one
today would not expect this consideration to be settled by a dream is
irrelevant. Still, one should determine if she or he is on the proper
spiritual level to move to EY. I would think that a thorough and deep
cheshbon ha nefesh (perhaps in consultation with a gadol) is required.

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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 20:07:25 +0000
From: "Prof. L. Levine via Areivim" <areivim at lists.aishdas.org>

The following is from pages 114-115 of Vision and Valor by Rabbi Berel
Wein. "He (Rav or Rabi Zeira I) did not leave for the Land of Israel
until he had a favorable dream that showed him that any possible sins
of his were already forgiven; therefore, he was worthy of living in the
Holy Land."

I have never heard of anyone considering making Aliyah have Ravi Zeira's
approach in mind. Have you? I wonder why.

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Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 13:53:14 +0200
From: menucha via Areivim <areivim at lists.aishdas.org>

Instead of engaging in a discussion based on a quote from a book written
by Rabbi Berel Wein, I suggest that we examine the primary source for
this statement: Brachot 57a

    And one who sees barley [se'orim] in a dream has received a sign that
    his iniquities are taken away, as it is stated: "And your iniquity
    is taken away [vesar avonekh], and your sin expiated" (Isaiah 6:7);
    se'orim is an acronym for sar avon. Rabbi Zeira said: I did not
    ascend from Babylonia to Eretz Yisrael until I saw barley in my dream

This statement is a cryptic one, and Rabbi Wein's interpretation is by no
means the only one. For example, Tzitz Eliezer (11 Hadran for Ketubot);
Rabbi Zeira sees this as a Heavenly sign that he -- and not Rabbi Yehuda
-- is correct in the machloket about moving to Eretz Yisrael. Not only
that it is not a sin but that he will receive s'char mitzva for moving
to EY Shabbat shalom.

Menucha