[Avodah] further to R Lakish Annoyed with R Elazar

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 06:33:16PM -0000, Chana Luntz via Avodah wrote:
>> He raised an objection; RLakish considered it and dismissed it.
>> Is one supposed to stop thinking when one's teacher raises an objection and
>> just accept it?

...
> However it seems to me that even without saying he would have accepted it
> (and/or he needs to accept it), there is a big difference.  If one knew that
> something was said by someone whose learning one rated, surely one would
> think harder about rejecting it and the reasons for doing so than one would
> if it was said by someone who one has less respect for...

Which is what I was trying to say in my answer. But on Tue, Nov 01,
2022 at 12:36:10PM +1100, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi responded:
> WADR to R Micha, it is difficult to see how his response addresses any of
> these issues.

I think initial question unnecessarily employs either-or logic.

There is a lot of space between a student being required to blindly
accept one's rebbe position and a student setting out on the topic with
a blank slate, without knowing that a suggested position was his rebbe's.
Situations of more or less confidence in one of two shitos likely happens
more often than a clear "I think A is right and B is wrong."

Knowing what one's rebbe held, knowing that rebbe's ability and yir'as
Shamayim could change the shiqul hadaas. He could take it on faith
that if his rebbe suggested B, shitah B is stronger than it seems to
him, and consequently, he isn't so sure the argument for shitah B is
stronger. Despite how it seems to him.

Again, if it's in not "A is right" but "the sevara for A seem more
compelling". Relative, not absolute.

But RtCL raised something else that I think is very imporant, if not
relevent to a statement discussed as theory in a beis medrash. When
it comes to halakhah lemaaseh in particular, a student needs reshus
from their rebbe to rule altogether, if the rebbe is alive and within
12 mil. (I wonder what 12 mil translates to in the telecommunications
age.) With the exception of a direct question that requires an immediate
answer to avoid someone sinning. (Hil' Talmud Torah 5:3)

In some opinions, such formal permission is all today's semichah means.
(Making the concept of a Rabbanut Semichah a little dubious. But then
I have problems with the whole idea of "Yoreh Yoreh" without shimush
talidei chakhamim.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Life is a stage and we are the actors,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   but only some of us have the script.
Author: Widen Your Tent                  - Rav Menachem Nissel
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF