[Avodah] RYochanan RLakish and RElozor Asking Qs Rebuke

[Rabbi Meir G. Rabi]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, in particular your reference to YD 242
which I was unaware of.

There are clear and emphatic Halachot obligating a student to re-direct his
master if it appears that the master is making a mistake. The Zaken who is
competent in Halacha must bring a Sin Offering - a Shoggeg - if he
mistakenly believed it is correct - indeed a Mitzvah - to follow the Beis
DIns ruling even when he knows they are making a mistake, and therefore
eats what he knows is prohibited.

If we add Moreh Halacha Lifnei Rabbo to the mix as per Rbz ChL - we have
another dimension to RE - how could he permit RL to provide that ruling
knowing that it was a violation that RL would most certainly wish to avoid?

Was R Elozor disobeying the directive of correcting his master? Why did he
allow RLakish to rule on a matter that RE knew RYochanan disagreed with?
Should RE not have at least suspected that RY would want to know this?

The observation, which seems to be very true, that we more readily dismiss
a query or a probing question if it emerges from what appears to be a
mediocre student [and we ought to add, the willingness of the other
students/admirers to go along with and even support and defend a less than
satisfactory answer] is something that the Torah is vigorously opposed to;
it hamstrings the emergence of truth, it violates the prohibition of
Chanufah. What is worse is that the dismissal prevents them from properly
thinking about the challenge/query.

Perhaps this was REs way of testing and positively rebuking RLakish “see
you are dismissing an argument that you would give greater consideration to
if only you knew it came from RY.” Perhaps the rebuke also reflected that
RL did not give enough weight to RE opinions.

Which leads to a very painful and delicate question - how do I let my Rov
know that he is treating me or someone else with disdain? How does a Talmid
in Shiur advise his MShiur that he is afraid of asking questions bcs he
sees how others are ridiculed for asking a KlotzKasheh? And how does a
parent advise a RYeshivah? Have we gone too far in venerating our Gedolim?
Do we have people today who are capable and willing to manage this
improvement? Are we so terrified that this conversation seems to be
verboten by one and all?

It seems that when the Navi rebukes Dovid HaMelech for the incident with
BSheva, that only someone who is both blind and insensitive, an absolute
narcissist, could fail to understand the meaning behind the Mashal even
before the Navi is halfway through it. Learning this episode, even little
kids can see what is coming, and are cringing - and yet the great king
failed to see and needed to be told “You are that man.”

It should also be noted that even DHaMelech needed to be directed to this
indelicacy via a Mashal - whereas we think of this strategy being
appropriate for little children.  and an adult may well feel humiliated by
being addressed in such a condescending fashion.

Back to the Gemara Kesuvos 25b - Then comes the ruling of RLakish, which
from the Gemaras sparse wording suggests RE was just completely ignored;
fairly sharp and dismissive, no? - which likely left RE in a V difficult
situation; could he, should he correct RL in the Beis HaMedrash in front of
all the other students or even afterwards in private forcing him to retract
his ruling?



Best,

Meir G. Rabi

0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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