[Avodah] Gluten free oats

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 10:07:53PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> If I'm understanding it correctly, while it is true that chitah and se'orah
> are mentioned in the Torah by name, the other three grains aren't, and
> Chazal had no problem conducting experiments, to find empirical evidence
> about which grains produce chimutz and which produce sirchon...

I disagree. This is how I understood the gemara. (Which I did learn,
but only at daf yomi pace and 2 cycles ago.)

The burden of proof is on the one who says there was a machloqes in
metzi'us. So let's see if that is really the most compelling read of
the Y-mi.

The Yerushalmi (Challah 1b; Pesachim 17a) records a dispute between
the Chakhamim, who said that chameitz cannot be made from rice flour,
and Rabbi Yochanan ben Nuri who said that it could. So, the gemara
suggests, "So check it!" A scientific determination! But it turns out
they did check it, but the two sides disputed about "iqar bediqasah --
the essence of the check." I took this to mean the argument was over
how to explain the result.

It is science's job to define the possible physical states reality
could be in. It is the poseiq's job to tell us which of those states
are included in a halachic statement, and which not.

To the Rabanan, the physical state they saw when they looked at
what happened to rice dough was in the halachic set of states we call
"sirchon", to Rabbi Yochanan ben Nuri, the result is "chimutz". Knowing
the science is not enough to know how to categorize it halachically.
We can have a machloqes about how far from wheat flour and water the
"chameitz" line goes, while still knowing exactly how far from it rice
flour and water is.

Besides, if chameitz were experimentally defined, wouldn't wheat with 100%
apple juice also be chameitz deOraisa?

(BTW, I apply similar reasoning to "death". Science can define and
show us how to determine brain death, brain stem death, cessation of
signals from the brain to the lungs and or heart, end of breath, final
heartbeat... But it cannot tell a poseiq when someone is halachically a
"meis", which of those states qualify.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 11th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   1 week and 4 days in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Netzach sheb'Gevurah: What is imposing about
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                          strict justice?