[Avodah] Chamets - Whiskey & Vinegar

[Rabbi Meir G. Rabi]

re R' Zev S observation that "steps A and B" have not been taken into
account -

Perhaps I ought to have been clearer when I wrote, "If only half of the
Kezayis of vinegar is Chamets ..." made by design to accommodate steps A
and B.

[Email #2. -mb]

I apologise for not providing the source referred to - 2 articles on the OU
site; presented now

https://oukosher.org/passover/articles/which-foods-are-chametz-2/ .
https://oukosher.org/halacha-yomis/may-i-purchase-vinegar-based-products-e-g-pickles-mustard-salad-dressing-horseradish-after-pesach-from-a-jewish-store-that-did-not-sell-its-chametz/

The article is my own and it seems to me that the OU is mistaken in its
assertion that vinegar might possibly be Chamets and requires KLP.

The main issue is the halacha YD 92:8 in which the steam rising from the
milk and enveloping the meat is of absolutely no concern to the halacha -
it is deemed to be water DESPITE the fact that we know that all sorts of
solids ascend in that steam which we can see with our eyes as it
accumulates on the surfaces above the stove.

In that case the steam distilled from Chamets is also not Chamets, nor Stam
Yayin if distilled from NK wine.
So all vinegar is accordingly Kosher and KLP no matter the source of the
alcohol.

Since halacha permits hanging meat to dry in the warm zone above a stove
even when it is enveloped by steam of milk cooking on the stove below [YD
92:8 - the only restriction being that the steam be less that Yad Soledes
when it contacts the meat] it is reasonable to assert that alcohol
distilled from Chamets is not Chamets just as the steam is not dairy. The
Poskim however maintain that it is Chamets. [Mishneh Berurah [442:4] - “the
consensus of the Poskim is that ‘Yayin Saraf’ - the drink that burns
[because of its high alcohol content, or perhaps that is processed with
heat i.e. distillation] - when produced from one of the 5 grains is more
intensely Chamets than diluted Chamets”]  This is probably due to the
impurity of whiskey as it was in years gone-by when as a crude process it
provided between 40% and 50% alcohol. The finished product retained the
taste and flavour of the Chamets it was distilled from.

As to R' Arie F's observations re flavour from the fermented mash; I have
tasted the pure distillate and perhaps the great connoisseurs can detect
variations, I certainly could not. Also the blender who guided me admitted
he could only detect 'hints' of flavour variations.

It is true as R' A states that "a bunch of other fragrant, tasty molecules"
emerge with the distillate but a bunch of those highly fractionated
molecules do not accurately represent or portray the Chamets flavour. In
the food flavour arena there are so many natural flavours that are
extracted from the malting process - grains are malted, made wet and
begin to germinate, they sprout. The chemical processes in malting are
vast, and are still not fully understood or identified. Hundreds of
flavours that are as different to one another as day is to night, are
developed from this malting process. Are they Chamets?

In support of the distillate not having Chamets flavour, here is a quote of
a self proclaimed expert, see below for fuller quote - in his entire rant,
not one word, not one reflection about the source from which the drinks are
derived. There is APPLE there is TOFFEE TOBACCO [for heaven's sake]
and the reference to malt is a SAFEK and not MALT but HONEYED CHARACTER -
"Some of that honeyed character may also be from the malt, too. It is hard
to know for certain" and this "conservative estimates would be that whisky
gets upwards of 60% of its flavour from oak"

and this gem "sherry American oak casks can give a whisky a more fruit cake
and chocolaty flavour profile with peel and spice ... might offer nuts,
prune, cherries, Christmas cake, raisins, sultana or dried fruit"

= = = =
Let's explore three magnificent expressions -- one from Glenfiddich, one
from Glengoyne and one from Bruichladdich -- to make some more sense of how
oak infuses new make with oak flavours.

1. GLENFIDDICH 12 YEAR OLD
In my review of Glenfiddich 12 year old it is evident that my nose and
taste buds could detect lots of apple. When pouring Glenfiddich 12 year old
into a glass, I could smell the lovely apple from arms length away. That
apple, clearly, is from the distillate. There was also spice, vanilla and
toffee alongside faint sherry in the background, suggesting American oak
and sherry wood was used to mature the whisky and add more layers to
Glenfiddich's apple rich core. Vanilla, for example, is a classic sign of
American oak. Some of that honeyed character may also be from the malt,
too. It is hard to know for certain, but we can roughly break down the
flavours and take a good guess where they have come from.

2. GLENGOYNE CASK STRENGTH
In my review of Glengoyne Cask Strength it is clear that I detected in the
whisky creamy crushed biscuits and wholemeal notes with cooked apple/pear
and sweet ethanol, hints of spice, English style overproof rum, sweet mint,
raisin/fruit cake, chocolate and cocoa, and, sherry. It seems likely that
the cereal, and obviously the sweet honeyed ethanol as well as the fruity
apple and pear, would probably be remnants of the distillate after maturing
in the oak. Those sugary notes, and that lovely spice along with the
raisin/fruit cake, are typical of sherry wood. There may be a fusion of
character from the distillate and the oak that gave off the rummy notes; as
opposed to stronger sugary sherry notes mainly from the cask.

3. BRUICHLADDICH OCTOMORE 7.3 ISLAY BARLEY
I describe this whisky as a “peaty sea monster”, and give it descriptors
such as toffee apple, fudge, vanilla, tobacco etc. We know that the whisky
is made from Islay barley that has been dried using peat smoke. That is
where it gets its smoky peat flavours, and, probably, also its sea spray
and salt notes. The Glenfiddich and Glengoyne expressions just mentioned,
in contrast, offer no peat smoke. There is also that apple, which probably
comes from the distillate. Then we have flavours that tend to be associated
more with American oak, so on top of those peaty maritime flavours we get
vanillas, tobacco, toffee etc. Obviously, it is hard to know with absolute
certainty what flavours would come from where, but this may be a decent
guess.

To summarise, we can see that whisky is a muddled mix of flavours from the
distillate (i.e: apple in the Glenfiddich, peat and sea spray in the
Octomore), the oak (i.e: vanilla from American oak, raisin/fruit cake from
sherry wood), and the marriage of distillate and oak.

Best,

Meir G. Rabi

0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837