[Avodah] ad hayom hazeh

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 06:33:41AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> Yes, but theoretically if each individual made decisions that in total
> did not get to the desired end state, doesn't this imply that HKBH would
> have to limit someone's bechira to reach the end state?

You started out talking about Be'er Sheva being called that "ad hayom
hazeh". I replied by quoting myself talking about yemos hamashiach.

Do you believe that the guarantee there will be a mashiach limits
bechirah?

OTOH, there is a kind of limitation of bechirah that you're probably
perfectly okay with. You cannot choose to violate the laws of physics.
Perhaps such statements about the future are based on HQBH knowing there
is no way to avoid the outcome.

Also, WRT my case (yemos hamashiach), there's the famous take on kulo
chayav that Hashem would "step in" to do it Himself miraculously if
we all choose not to.

Can you do anything with these seeds to grow yourself an answer?




On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 08:43:44PM -0500, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> 1) Looking from the perspective of Adam and Chava before they sinned: Was
> "the desired end state" an entry into Olam Haba the very next day? Or was
> "the desired end state" that they should err, and then grow by learning
> from that error?

I think that both were desired. Hashem's plan including bechirah means that
the plan is more about given we do / become X, He will respond Y than any
one path.


Off topic: But I think that had Chava & Adam not sinned, there never
would have been a split between olam hazeh and olam haba, and they would
have remained in the one synthesis olam they were already in.

RAYKook defines techiyas hameisim as a time when humanity gets beyond
the illusion that olam haba, where the dead are, is actually a different
place than "here".

REED has a similar take about olamos, in which he says that the cheit
changed Adam's perception, and it's perception that is the difference
between olam ha'yetzirah and olam ha'asiyah, a world run by the
laws of nisim and that run by those of teva. (MeE vol I, pp 304-312,
"Olasmos deAsiyah veYetzirah", and vol II "Yemei Bereishis veYamei Olam"
pp 140-154.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 It is harder to eat the day before Yom Kippur
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   with the proper intent than to fast on Yom
Author: Widen Your Tent      Kippur with that intent.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                     - Rav Yisrael Salanter