[Avodah] : Re: free public transport on Shabbos/Yomtov

[Zev Sero]

On 17/6/20 3:20 pm, Chana Luntz via Avodah wrote:

> The key language (which is why I posted it) are the words  that one can only
> travel in these electric wagons on shabbat if  they are driven by non-Jews "
> ub'rechovot sherov toshevim hem lo Yehudim".  That does not say that the
> majority of the streets they pass through must have a majority non-Jews., or
> some of the streets they pass through must have majority non-Jews, but that
> for taking these these wagons (or buses) to be acceptable, they must solely
> be driven in streets where the majority of the inhabitants are not Jews.
> Otherwise it looks like they are being driven down those streets for the
> Jews.

Nor does he say "*only* in streets...".  I think the expression "in 
streets" refers to the whole line, not to each individual stretch of 
road along it.  Because I don't see how it matters why the bus is going 
along that stretch of road when it could have been rerouted to go along 
a parallel road; what matters is why the bus is running from the 
beginning of the line to the end of the line at all, and that is for all 
the people who have occasion to travel along any part of it.



> Perhaps it is clearer in his summary (the original quote was from the body
> of the teshuva, where he gave his reasons):
> 
> אסור לנסוע בקרונות אלה אפילו אם הם של לא יהודים ומתנהגות על ידי לא יהודים אם
> הן הולכות ושבות במקום שיש בו ישוב יהודי, שודאי הוא שהלא - יהודי מכוין
> בנסיעתו זאת להנוסעים היהודים. אבל במקום שכל התושבים הם לא - יהודים מותר
> 
> It is forbidden to travel in these wagons even if they belong to non-Jews,
> and are driven by non-Jews, if they go and stop in a place in which there is
> a Jewish settlement, then for sure it is that the non-Jew is intending in
> his journey that Jews should travel.  But in a place where all the dwellers
> are non-Jews, it is permitted.

Wait a minute. He doesn't say anything about where it stops.  Just where 
it goes.  There's nothing about stopping in that passage, or in anything 
you've quoted.  And by  ישוב יהודי I think he means a Jewish population. 
That's why it's certain that the bus must be running for that 
population.  Also when he says "all the residents are not Jewish" I 
don't think he can possibly mean that literally; he means the majority.


> If the line exists to serve Jews, then it is not a non-Jewish line.

Sure it is.  If it's owned and run by non-Jews, as is the case 
everywhere in chu"l (except the frum community buses, which obviously 
don't run on Shabbos so they're not an issue), then it's a non-Jewish 
line, even if it exists primarily to serve Jews.



> Rav Uzziel was chief rabbi in, inter alia, Salonika, he spent a lot
> of time in chutz l'aretz,
Other than his two years in Salonika (which he took while on temporary 
leave from his rabbanut in Yaffo) and a brief period of forcible exile 
in Damascus, when did he live in chu"l?


> and the suggestion that he was discussing Palestinian or Jordanian
> transport in Arab areas when he was permitting travel on Shabbas (for
> the mitzvah of going to shul and similar only) seems highly
> unlikely. Most people wouldn't use that transport for pikuach nefesh
> reasons, not ask shialas about whether they can use it on Shabbas to
> get to shul.
My understanding is that this was not the case for a long time.  There 
was relative safety, at least as much as there is on public transport in 
some chu"l cities.



-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy summer
zev at sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper