[Avodah] Street Minyanim

[Chana Luntz]

RZS writes:

<<Where there are mechitzos of 10 tefachim, there's no question that for
hilchos eruvin we consider them separate places. But the question is where
do we see that this matters for the purpose of tziruf minyan?  Who says that
just because they're in different *reshuyos* they are therefore also in
different *mekomos*?

And if we do say that, then even within a shul would we say that there must
not be a mechitzas esser between the members of a minyan?  Are those
standing on the bima, which is traditionally enclosed by a mechitzas esser,
not counted in the minyan?!>>

This is exactly the question that was asked and answered by the Rashba in
the key teshuva ( Chelek 1 siman 96).  The question that was asked was, the
common design of shuls was that  the chazzan stands on a bimah with walls of
ten tefachim surrounding him,  and on what basis (given the gemora in
Eruvin) can he be considered part of the congregation?

The Rashba's main argument is that when the gemora in Eruvin (92b)was
discussing areas (where the chazan in the large cannot exempt a minyan in
the small, but a chazzan in the small can exempt a minyan in the large, and
similarly that nine in the large can be joined together with one in the
small, but nine in the small cannot be joined to one in the large) the
question only arose where each of the areas was made for its own independent
use (זו בפני עצמה עומדת לתשמישיה וזו בפני עצמה) .  But the bimah was not
made for its own use, it was made to serve the shul, and hence it didn't
matter that it had mechitzos and was technically a separate reshus.  That I
think is undisputed (although there is much discussion in the various
rishonim and achronim about whether the same applies to a woman's gallery,
especially when, as was often the case in those days, the walls went up to
the roof, but that is not relevant for our purposes).  

The controversy is about the last paragraph of the Rashba, where he adds to
this by saying that "perhaps" if everyone can see one another, then, just as
with zimun, they can all be joined even where, say, there is a nine in the
small and one in the large, and that that Gemora in Eruvin (despite making
no mention of it) is only talking about a case where the two groups cannot
see one another.

As everybody in a porch minyan is standing in their own garden or porch, and
clearly those gardens and porches were built for their own independent use,
the first justification of the Rashba cannot allow for the members of porch
minyanim to be joined together.  One can only say that they can be joined if
one follows the perhaps of the Rashba, and holds that seeing allows for
joining even where there are in different areas.

BTW The second relevant gemora is Pesachim 85b, which is discussing at what
point a korban pesach is invalidated by being considered that it has been
taken out of Yerushalayim, and the mishna says from the door jam (and
outwards), and then there is an additional line which says " Rav Yehuda says
in the name of Rav: and so for prayer. " and the Gemora then adds, and he
disagrees with Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi, as Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi says:
even a partition of iron does not divide between Israel and their father in
heaven.".  Tosfos there (d"h v'chen l'tefila ") brings the gemora in Eruvin
and says that therefore RYBL can't be talking about joining for a minyan,
but only answering kedusha and kaddish etc - ie that outside the door jam
you can still answer kedusha and kaddish, but cannot be joined to the
minyan.

Note however that in the discussion regarding zimun as found in the Shulchan
Aruch it says as follows (Shulchan Aruch Orech Chaim siman 195 si'if 1): Two
groups that ate in one house or in two houses, if a few of them see each
other, they are joined for a zimun, and if not, they are not joined, and if
there is a shamash between the two of them, they are joined, like they
entered initially with the intention of being joined together, and there are
those who say that if there is a reshut harabim dividing them, they are not
joined in any manner.

This can be contrasted to the Shulchan Aruch in Orech Chaim siman 55 si'if
13 which says " There needs to be all ten in one place, and the shalich
tzibbur with them, and one who stands inside the doorway from the door jam
and outside, that is when they close the door from the place inside, the
thickness of the door and outside is like the outside", although it can be
argued that this is somewhat modified by si'if 14 which says " One who
stands behind the synagogue and between them is a window, even if it is many
stories high, even if it is not four wide, and he shows his face to them
from there, he is joined with them to the ten Rema: roofs and upper stories
are not in the general rule of a house, and if he stands on them he is not
joined.  It is the understanding of the Magen Avraham and other achronim in
these two si'ifim, by use of the analogy to zimun, that is the justification
for minyanim where everybody is in different houses but see one another
being joined.

>Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy summer

Shabbat Shalom

Chana