[Avodah] ToChaCha

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 09:55:44PM +0000, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
> Because we have Halacha that answers that Q and we must assert that until
> that standard is met the duty remains.
> 
> We are exempted from this duty when the recipient slaps, or according to
> many is ready to slap. In other words, one has a duty to clarify - that's
> the true meaning of LeHoChiAch, to clarify to the sinner that their deeds
> are wrong - and it's fairly certain that after a couple of hundred attempts
> to get through, before the recipient is ready to slap, one is not likely to
> succeed. And yet this Mitzvah is defined with a double instruction, which
> Chazzal explain to mean, one must continue, even a thousand times.

I asked a related question, as these two standards seem different ot me
as well. "As long as they'll listen" is a way lower bar than "until they'll
slap you" (and it may well be ad ve'ad bikhlal).

So, this is where my head is, after thinking about it on my own without
the help of finding sources.

The mitzvah of tokhachah is until it causes sin'ah. After all, that's the
pasuq:
    Lo sisna es achikha bilvavekha
    hokheiach tokhiach es amisekha
    velo savo alav cheit.

(The Chizquni ad loc says the primary mitzvah of tokhachah is clearing the
air after you feel you were wronged by someone. Thus avoiding sin'ah for
how you perceive what they did to you.)

However, before you reach that standard, tokhachah can be dechuyah. So,
the mitzvah still exists, but the aveira of lifnei iveir of turning them
into meizidim means you can't do it.

But that's a practical concern. You have a chiyuv that you can't or don't
know how to do -- and as the gemara puts it, no one today knows how.

That's different than the standard at which you have done your duty,
even if unsuccessful in getting them to change. Maybe a witness or
someone who hears the story will be influenced.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 It's never too late
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   to become the person
Author: Widen Your Tent      you might have been.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                    - George Eliot