[Avodah] Cholov Akum and Cholov Yisroel

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 04:25:30PM +0000, Prof. L. Levine forwarded a
link to Avodah from OU Kosher which said the following:
> A. This question should be an open and shut case. The Rama (YD 115:1)
> writes explicitly that if cholov akum was cooked in a pot, the pot
> must be kashered before it is re-used...

> are in agreement with Rav Moshe as far as the letter of the law, but
> nonetheless refrain from drinking unsupervised milk as a stringency. As
> such, there are the following positions:

> * Those who disagree with Rav Moshe and consider cholov akum to be
>   halachically prohibited treat food cooked in chalav akum equipment as
>   non-kosher, per the Rama quoted above.

> * On the other hand, those who follow Rav Moshe Feinstein's lenient
>   position on commercial milk would...

> * A third group agrees with Rav Moshe Feinstein's lenient position
>   in principal, but nonetheless refrain from drinking cholov stam as a
>   chumrah...

This analysis bothers me, because it forgets history before the 1950s.
When RMF even wrote his first teshuvah on the subject, it was already
the norm among most American shomerei kashrus not to be maqpid on CY.
And there was already precedent in other countries in other eras.

RMF was justifying existing practice, not creating a new pesaq. So we
are less relying on RMF's position as on Ramaz's, R Moshe Soloveitchik's,
as well as many rabbinim who time forgot (such as my own greatgrandfather
who was the rav of Boston 100 years ago).

But RMF's rationale is a major chiddush. He holds like the Chasam Sofer
that CY is a gezeira that requires re'iyah, but brings examples from
other dinim to to show that "re'iyah" doesn't always mean visual observation.
Knowing with a certain level of confidence can also qualify.

Wheres we have RHS's testimony that according to his father, R Melech
Schachter, most rabbanim assumed they were following the Peri Chadash
against the CS. That CY is a pesaq in the gemara involving the usual
rules of needing to ascertain that what you're eating is kosher. And
thus one doesn't need CY if the farmer has a strong disinsentive against
adulterating his milk.

Similarly, the CI (YD 41:4) assumes that gov't supervision is sufficient
because of the Peri Chadash's shitah. And R Yaakov Kanievsky (Qerayna
deIresa 2:123; and this is the CI's brother-in-law) said he used this
as a snif lehaqeil to allow powdered milk during wartime to the sick
who needed it. The CI held of CY, but to him the route to qulah in
exceptional cases was the PC's, not RMF's take on the CS.


Second, you needn't have to hold that CY is only a chumerah in order to
consume food from CY dishes. The Rama (YD 64:9) deals with a given fat
that some held was cheileve and others held was mutar. The Rama says
that the machmirim may eat off the dishes of the meiqilim. Similarly
(YD 115:1) about dishes of those who eat butter made by a non-Jews.
Emes leYaaqov (pg 308) uses these positions by the Rama to say one may
eat of the dishes of those who are meiqil on CY. Not because it's only
lifnim mishuras hadin to be concerned for CY at all.

So, the only case where one would have to be machmir with non-CY dishes
is if someone who holds CY is iqar hadin treifed up his own dish. (Or
that of another CY eater.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The meaning of life is to find your gift.
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   The purpose of life
Author: Widen Your Tent      is to give it away.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                   - Pablo Picasso