[Avodah] Fish and Meat eating

[Alexander Seinfeld]

I agree with Joel, not so simple.

A few thoughts:

1. Rambam: Many people point out that the Rambam never mentions this
prohibition – seems to be in the category of Talmudic medicine which we
are not meant to follow.

 
2. Speculation: maybe the danger of eating fish and meat together is
because fish have small bones that may be overlooked when eating meat
(which
only have big bones). This could lead to inadvertently swallowing small
fish bones, which could lead to choking.
 

3. Source: the actual Gemara states:
 
Talmud Bavli Pesachim 76b — "A fish that was roasted with meat - Rava from
Parzika forbade eating it with milk [because the fish became fleishig].
Mar bar Rav Ashi said, even to eat it by itself is forbidden because it
bad for odor and davar acher."

Note that he’s not saying that the combination with meat is dangerous,
rather fish roasted with meat. (But the Shulchan Aruch for some reason
forbids any fish with any meat. It seems to me the clear intent of the
Gemara is to say don’t eat them when they were roasted together. Also, it
is quite interesting to me that Mar bar Rav Ashi puts the bad odor first -
if it’s really that dangerous, wouldn’t he mention it first? And if it was
so dangerous, why would no one before Mar bar Rav
Ashi (who is literally the last chronological voice in the Gemara) mention
it, and as I said, even he mentions it after odor?
 

4. Roasting/frying can produce acrylamides, a carcinogen:
https://www.fda.gov/food/chemicals/acrylamide-questions-and-answers
https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/acrylamide.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3756514/

While the above sources say that meat and fish produce less acrylamides,
this study finds that fattier meat produces more:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3931869/
 

5. Unknown: It appears to have never been tested whether or not roasting
meat and fish together significantly increases acrylamides or some other
harmful compound. How about increased risk for eczema? I’d be particularly
interested in the latter as it appears to be influenced by diet (affects
people more often who have food allergies), and since it is relatively
rare but can be unseemly, might explain why Mar bar Rav Ashi mentions it
only after bad odor, and why the Gemara seems to equate it with leprosy
(“davar acher”) which seems to be a general term for any leprosy-like
condition.

 
6. In conclusion, to me it sounds like a minor secondary worry from one
authority that one might speculate is allergy-related, that the Rambam
ignores but for some reason Rav Yoseph Caro decided to codify as an
outright prohibition, perhaps due to the way the Gemara concludes the
sugyia with it. But he does qualify his prohibition – it’s due to danger;
therefore, now that we are not worried about the danger, it seems to me we
don’t have to worry about the danger, and our separation should be
understood – and taught – as merely customary.
 


Alexander Seinfeld


>On 10/12/19 10:45 pm, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
>>The gemara only talks about cooking them together in the same oven.
>>Since this is an issue of danger, any understanding of how the
>>prohibition got extended so far
>
>It's a simple kal vachomer.  If simply baking them in the same oven can
>cause problems, how much more so actually eating them together.
>-------------------------
>I wouldn't say simple, perhaps it's the baking process that causes the
>danger
>Kt
>Joel rich

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