[Avodah] Multivalent truth

Micha Berger micha at aishdas.org
Mon May 6 08:00:47 PDT 2019

On Mon, May 06, 2019 at 09:22:40AM -0400, Zvi Lampel wrote:
: Most rishonim (Recanti may be an exception, and R. Meir ben Ezekiel
: ibn Gabbai [1480-1540, in Avodas HaKodesh] probably is) do not
: accept that eilu va'eilu means that something and its inverse can
: both be true in the same situation, at the same time and place. Look
: at Rashi on "All [the variant opinions] were given from one
: Shepherd, one Almighty gave them, one leader said them from the Adon
: of all maasim (Chaggigah 3b)." ...
:     "All of them--One Almighty said them": You have no one of the
: bnei hamachlokess bringing evidence from the torah of any other god
: besides the Torah of our G d.
:     "One leader said them": You have none bringing evidence from a
: prophet who comes to argue against Moshe Rabbeynu.

Not sure how that denies plurality of truths. He just says that eilu
va'eilu must both stand on Toras Moshe.

But in Kesuvos 57a, "ha QML", Rashi says that one side being wrong in
a machloqes is something specific to two amoraim arguing about what a
tanna or earlier amora says, "terei amora'ei aliba dechad amora". A limit
which would seem to be intentionally excludes the gemara's other case
"terei amora'ei aliba dechad amora".

The earlier amora could only have meant one of the two. But the Torah
could indeed mean both.

And  then we have the Ran's haqdamah to haMafteiach leMenulei haTalmud
(tr. R/Dr Moshe Halbertal):
    It is a known fact that the entire Torah, written and oral,
    was transm itted to Moses, as it says in the tractate Meggilah,
    R. Hiyya bar Abba said in the Name of R. Yohanan: The verse:...and
    on them was written according to all the words.." teaches that the
    Holy One blessed be He showed Moses the details prescribed by the
    Torah and by the Sages, including the innovations they would later
    enact. And what are those? the reading of Meggila. The 'details'
    provided by the rabbis are halakhic disputes and conflicting views
    held by the sa ges of Israel. Moses learned them all by divine
    word with no resolution every controversy in detail. Yet [God]
    also gave him a rule whose truth is manifest, i.e., 'Favor the
    majority opinion'....as the sages of that generation saw fit, for
    the decision had already been delegated to them as it is written:
    'And you shall come to the priest the Levites, and to the judge that
    shall be in those days' and 'You shall not deviate....".

And the Ran, derashah #7:
   We have been commanded to obey their decision whether it represents the
   truth or its opposite ...for the power of decision-making has been
   entrusted to the halakhic authorities for each generation. Whatever
   they decide is what God has commanded.

The Ritva on eilu va'eilu https://www.sefaria.org/Ritva_on_Eruvin.13b.2
endorses an understanding of Rabanei Tzarfat (who I think are Baalei
Tosafos) that HQBH gave Moshe both, saying that it was up to chakhmei
Yisrael bekhol dor vador... uvderekh ha'emes yeish ta'am sod bedavar

In short, your position is contrary to both R' Michel Rosenseig and
RMH's takes, and I've posted source like these in the past.

See my blog post at <http://www.aishdas.org/asp/eilu-vaeilu-part-i>
which includes links to articles each had published in early 2005.

All this goes back to our debate about whether the Rambam has a daas
yachid about many of the kelalei pesaq because of an a different belief
about what machloqes is and what pesaq accomplished.

I think that much is provable, regardless of my fear that the Rambam's
divergance is most easily explained by his Aristotilianism.

Chodesh Tov!
Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             Today is the 16th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        2 weeks and 2 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Gevurah sheb'Tifferes: What type of discipline
Fax: (270) 514-1507                             does harmony promote?

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