[Avodah] The Last Nochri Who Owned The Milk

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 09:57:46AM -0500, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
: You've forgotten the whole point of the teshuvah, and why he brings up
: cheese & butter at all. The question he's answering is how the "re'iya"
: at the company helps, when the company buys its milk from farms, and he
: explicitly says that there is no "re'iya" at nochri farms and that it's
: forbidden to buy milk there. So how can we buy from the companies?

: He uses the examples of cheese & butter to prove (1) that the issur
: is chal only when it comes leyad yisroel, and (2) that if there is no
: cheshash about the last nochri, who made the cheese or butter, then
: we don't care that he bought the milk from a nochri about whom there
: is a cheshash. We only care about the "akum sheni", not about the
: "akum rishon".

Just #1. You don't need #2, if it weren't for gevinas aku"m and straight
kashrus issues. Not Chasam Sofer's gezeira-of-CY issue.

To elaborate your #1:
Once you say the issur is only chal when it becomes a Jew's property,
and the gezeira was only made about milk, then items that the Jew doesn't
own until after the milk ceases to be milk aren't under the gezeira.
That says nothing about which aku"m the gezeira was made about, and yet
fully justifies his heter. There is no need for #2, which is consistent
with my belief that it was not intended. The idiom "akum sheini" is
yours, and I simply see no discussion of the idea -- again, aside from
gevinas aku"m -- in the teshuvah.

The gezeira, as everyone including the teshuvah in question (YD 2:49,
1:49 in Bar Ilan) describes it, is about "chalav sheCHALVO aku"m".

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

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Micha Berger             Weeds are flowers too
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