[Avodah] Government Shutdown and Chalav Yisrael

Micha Berger micha at aishdas.org
Sun Jan 13 17:56:18 PST 2019

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 02:53:28PM -0500, Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer via Avodah wrote:
: On 1/11/2019 5:52 AM, Micha Berger wrote:
:> At what point do we say the assumptions behind allowing chalav stam
:> broke down, and one needs to buy chalav yisrael?

: I always preferred the Pri Chadash's heter.

To recap:

The Chasam Sofar holds that CY was a taqanah, and therefore would hold
even when the rationale doesn't.

The Peri Chadash hholds it's a pesaq, and therefore whereever the cheshash
is ignoribly small, there is no problem drinking chalav stam. The PC
himself drank chalav stam when he was in Amsterdam.

For over a generation before the Igeros Moshe, most Americans drank chalav
stam. We don't know why. The AhS assumed wthey were just sinning. But
this included some notable rabbis. The natural assumption is that they
held like the Peri Chadash. But since nothing is in writing, it's all

Everyone discusses this in terms of RMG's teshuvos in the Igeros Moshe.
But that's his post-facto rationale for an existing heter. RMF couldn't
believe that the final pesaq wasn't like the Chasam Sofer. Think how
often we cite the CS, and how often we even mention the Peri Chadash.

And so R Moshe comes up with a sevara by which we could hold like the
CS and yet stil could be meiqil. It strike me as dachuq, as though RMF
was looking for a way not to overturn a well supported pesaq while still
holding like the CS. Of course, that's just more guesswork.

But it means that the CS's taqanah requiring re'iyah means requiring
more certainty than usual birur, whereas the PC says it *is* just regular
birur. So, the nafqa mina lema'aseh boils down to measuring probability --
in a legal system that isn't that rigorous about probabilities?

Second, as the AhS notes, one only needs to have a Jew attend part of the
milking. This is his ra'ayah for the CS's position. But meanwhile, O don't
see how that fits RMF's position -- CY that was only watch for the first
2 out of a 15 min milking session isn't certainly unadulterated. So how
does RMF take "rei'yah" here for means "or as sure as if it were seen"
(as it does in other places)?

Lo zakhisi lehavin RMF's shitah.

And I am not sure we're actually relying on it lemaaseh.

Meanwhile, Zev mentioned my errors in metzi'us. The USDA not the FDA is
responsible for milk. And the inspection is at bottling, not the farm.
I have gotten conflicting reports about whether the USDA or a state
agency does those inspections.

All in all, I am surprised none of the national hashgachos have chimed
in to reassure people yet.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             Live as if you were living already for the
micha at aishdas.org        second time and as if you had acted the first
http://www.aishdas.org   time as wrongly as you are about to act now!
Fax: (270) 514-1507            - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning

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