[Avodah] To Whom Should One Pray At A Tzaddik's Kever?

[Zev Sero]

On 15/08/18 09:59, Danny Schoemann via Avodah wrote:

> What does bechirah have to do with asking for a Bracha?
> 
> This is a new concept for me, and may finally help answer the age-old
> question "what is a bracha and why does it work?"
>
> [...]
>
>> And thus, the Rambam's 5th iqar. (Where he also invokes the illogic of
>> making requests of something that has no bechirah.)
> 
> I'm curious as to why that is more illogical than praying to a person
> who has/had bechira. IOW what has bechira to do with being a
> conduit/emissary of prayer? (Back I am to the "what is prayer"
> question).
>
> [...]
>
> OK - that explains how he snuck in the angels, and why "it's silly" to
> pray to angles when one could pray directly to Hashem.
> 
> But that argument would work regarding praying to people (dead or alive), too.

If I may jump in here:

Let's start with the difference between AZ and shituf.

Outright AZ is the belief that Hashem is not the boss, that there are 
entities independent of Him who have power and must be worshipped in 
order for them to give us good things and not do bad things to us.

Shituf is the belief that Hashem is the only boss, but the sun, clouds, 
etc. are his servants and ministers, so just as when we need something 
from the government it's not enough to be on good terms with the king, 
we must also be on good terms with the guy at the DMV, and we must bribe 
him and pray to him, or he won't serve us, so also we must pray and 
sacrifice to the sun to give us sunshine and to the clouds to give us 
rain, or else they might not do it.

The fallacy is that the sun and clouds have no bechira.  They cannot 
choose whether to give us sunshine or rain; they do only what Hashem 
wants and nothing else, so praying and being nice to them is like asking 
the wrench to fix your car, and trying to be nice to the wrench and give 
it presents, when you should be talking to the mechanic who is wielding it.

It follows that it is fine to ask a human with bechira for favors that 
he is able to grant, including the favor of interceding with Hashem on 
your behalf.  Thus *Hashem told* Avimelech to ask Avraham to pray for 
him, since He was more likely to answer Avraham's prayers than 
Avimelech's own.

Now we come to mal'achim.  If you conceive of the mal'ach as a separate 
entity from its Maker, and yet you ask it for things, then you are 
clearly considering it to be a servant with bechira rather than a tool 
without it.  But there are tools which we don't butter up but to which 
we do routinely address requests, and nobody thinks it silly: 
telephones.  Every day we pick up a telephone and ask it to do all sorts 
of things for us.  The proverbial visitor from Mars would surely 
conclude that we attribute not just bechira but divine powers to this 
object!  But we don't even think of what we're doing as addressing the 
phone; we're addressing the person on the other end, and the phone is so 
batel to him that to us it *is* him.  We are treating it as if it had 
not only no bechira but also no metzius. Such a prayer is obviously 
permitted, since it's directed not at the robot but at the Operator.

Finally we come to the chassidic view of tzadikim, whether alive or 
dead.  If one views the tzadik as a baal bechira, then it's obviously 
permitted to ask him for a favor he can grant himself, such as a 
donation, or help changing a tire (while he's alive, of course). By the 
same token it's also OK to ask for his prayers and blessings for aid 
from Hashem, since he has the choice of doing so or not, and the aid 
sought is to come from Hashem, not from him.  But it is not OK to ask 
for his own personal aid in matters that properly belong to Hashem, not 
to people.  That would mean one considers him capable of giving such aid 
in his own capacity.  "Rebbe, ask Hashem to help me" is good, but 
"Rebbe, help me" is bad.

If one views him as not a baal bechira but a mere merkava to Hashem then 
it makes no sense to ask him for anything.  Speak to the driver, not to 
the car.  But if one views him as completely batel to Hashem, not like a 
car but like a telephone, or like a robot that serves as its Maker's 
eyes and ears, then it becomes OK to treat him like the One with Whom he 
so completely identifies, to bow down to him, pray to him, and ask for 
his supernatural help, because one is not really speaking to him at all 
but to Him. Thus Hashem called Yaacov Avinu with His own name, and thus 
the Zohar says "Who is 'the face of the L-rd G-d'? This is Rashbi".




> RMB:
>> The Chizquni refers back to the previous pasuq, where Yaaqov beraklhah
>> begins, "Ha-elokim asher..." and says it's a request to the Borei to have
>> the mal'akh who saves me bless the children. The Netziv gives a variant
>> of the same idea.
> 
> Didn't you just say it was illogical to make requests of something
> that has no bechirah?
> 
> So for us it's illogical, but for HKBH it's sensible? Please explain.

HKBH would not be *requesting* the mal'ach to please do as Yaacov asked, 
He would be *having* the mal'ach do so.  He's saying "Please set the 
same security system that's been looking after me all these years to 
look after my grandchildren too".


>> The Tur says simply that "mal'akh" is a reference
>> to HQBH.
> 
> Always? Can't be, since when HKBH says he will send an angel to lead
> us, Moshe request he do so 'personally".

Suppose you've invited someone famous to speak to your event. A 
celebrity, or a rosh yeshivah.  He can come in person or he can skype 
it.  Either way he's addressing you, but are you indifferent between 
these options?  I don't think so.  By taking the trouble to come 
bichvodo uve'atzmo he gives you the honor of showing that he values you 
enough to be worth the trouble.

-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 5779 to all
zev at sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper