[Avodah] What is SinAs Chinam

[Zev Sero]

On 25/07/18 12:41, Micha Berger wrote:

> And yet, R' Yochanan, who attributes the churban to this incident, says
> in mid-story (Gittin 56a; whether he interrupts himself or R' Ashi put
> it in the middle):
>      "mipenei anvanuso shel R' Zekhariah ben Avqulis
>      hecheriva beitianu
>      vesarfah es heikhaleinu
>      vehigliseinu mei'arzeinu".
> 
> Rashi on "anvanuso" -- "savlanuso, shesaval es zeh velo horgo."
> 
> Doesn't sound like he thought that if the chakhamim agreed, they were
> right to do so. Or that he was in the right.

Where do you see this?  R Yochanan is simply pointing out a fact, not 
passing judgment.  You are the one inserting a value judgment, that the 
price paid for this purity of principles was too heavy, and they should 
have compromised their standards in order to avoid paying it.  Who says 
that is right?  One could just as easily say the opposite, that this is 
an example of how one must do the right thing even if the result is a 
churban.


> Although the two sources disagree on how a middah was expressed,
> it's a chiddush to say the cause is the middah, without trying to
> place blame on it, declaring this anvanus to be flawed.

I don't see why it's a chidush to simply not insert words that aren't 
there.  The onus of proof is surely on the one wishing to insert something.



> The Maharshah (CA on Yuma 9b "avel miqdash 2") refers to the story
> of qamtza and bar qamtza as an example of the sin'as chinam the gamra
> mentions there.
> 
> R' Avigdor Miller can disagree with the Maharsha and Maharam Shif. But
> he has a burden of proof your quick retelling doesn't provide.

His proof is simply from the the gemara, which lists this as the first 
of a series of three incidents.  He simply insists that one must read it 
in that context.  Anyone who wishes to read this one as a morality story 
must do the same with the other two, and yet nobody attempts this.  If 
the other two incidents are about the causes of disaster rather than the 
reasons, then this must be too, and all those who take it out of that 
context must be understood not as giving pshat in the gemara but as 
using the story homiletically for their own mussar drashas.

-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 2018 to all
zev at sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper