[Avodah] Judging The Credibility Of The Sages

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 04:03:11PM -0400, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: Let me begin with Daas Torah.
...
: The idea of the infallibility of  religious leaders is, IMO, a
: result of the Chassidization of Yahadus.  I do not believe that this
: was prevalent in the non-Chassidic world prior to WW II.

It is also not normative Aggudist thought today. I cannot speak to the
popularity of the idea, but it's not what they mean when their ideologues
speak of it. Daas Torah has a number of formulations, none of which are
infallibility. This is simply a strawman nay-sayers like to address.

So what are those formulations? Here are 3 I know of:

1- Given how the gadol's mind is shapeds by his learning, he is a useful
resource for advice. He could be wrong, but aren't your odds better
by asking?

2- Asking a gadol will get you the answer Hashem wants you to act on,
whether it is the truth or not. E.g. the error of advising agaisnt
fleeing the Nazis was because that was what Hashem wanted of us. But it
was still pragmatically in error.

I also see hints of this model in RALichtenstein's "Im Ein Daas, Manhigut
Minayin?" but with the added caveat that RAL didn't expect to find daas
Torah in practice. (Not since RSZA.) Again, just implications; I could
be reading too much into the essay.

3- R' Dovid Cohen's formulation is based on melukhah. When malkhus
stopped, muich of the king's power fell to the Sanhedrin. When the
Sanhdring stopped, rabbanim inherited much of their authority, or act
as their sheluchim in abstentia. Therefore, we are obligated to make
gedolim our communal leadership. (Nothing to do with asking Daas Torah on
personal issues, which this model does not speak about.) Right or wrong,
they are supposed to lead.

RYBS's hesped for R CO Grozhinsky, "HaTzitz vehaChoshen" was made before
RYBS's split from Agudah. His thesis was that the same kohein gadol who
carries "Qadosh Lashem" on the tzitz is the same one who carries the
names of the shevatim on the choshen, and whose Urim veTumim is asked
questions of dividing nachalah or whether to go to war. Sounds much like
the same model.


Notice that all advocate listening to gedolim even on non-halachic
matters, but not because of any guarantees about accuracy.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
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