[Avodah] The Vilna Gaon and Secular Studies (Micha Berger)

[D Rubin]

This reply was sent earlier to R' Michah and is still valid:

I agree. With respect, I did allude to ‘learning skills and a mode of thinking’ in both of my previous posts: ‘the entire thinking process is aided by a secular education’, ‘ to be able to extrapolate and apply mathematical theory’, and my reference to ‘the [lack of] overall intellectual integrity’.



Related to this:

Is it incorrect to posit that a lot of ma’amorei Chazal was formulated in accordance to their understanding and cultural absorption of sciences of their day?

Can we not further Torah with our understanding of modern science, both peripheral and integral – even though clearly lacking their sya’ato dishmayo and Ru’ach HaKodesh?

Is that not the derech taught both by the Ba’al Shem and his disciples, and the GRA and his school [to use the chochmoh of the world..]?



Another q: Do we view Torah SheBa’al Peh on a par with Torah SheBiKsav, in the sense that it must be learnt ‘as is’, without consideration of the worldview that shaped those comments? [I rather think we can see two views in the Rishoinim.]



Dovid Rubin






________________________________
From: Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 5:20:06 PM
To: Moshe Yehuda Gluck via Avodah
Cc: Moshe Yehuda Gluck; 'D Rubin'
Subject: Re: [Avodah] The Vilna Gaon and Secular Studies

I think there are two opposite issues that haven't yet been raised that
I want to add to the discussion.

1- The iqar of learning in 1st to 12th grades is learning skills and a mode
of thinking.

The same is true of much of secular education. A person learns more in
algegra class than the specific facts under discussion. A programmer learns
tools for viewing problems that can help (if used) in general life. Social
Studies teaches a way of viewing other peoples and other societies, etc...

This can't be short-cut with a book on the specific facts necessary to
learn Eiruvin, Chullin, or my example of the minimum size of a circular
sukkah. (Which, BTW, was R/Dr Leon Ehrenpreis's launching pad for teaching
calculus. See my "hesped" at
<http://www.aishdas.org/asp/r-dr-eliezer-ehrenpreis-zl>.)

I am leaving the question unanswered as to whether this broad perspective
thing is something we should want to learn. (The regulars can guess my
answr anyway.) I just wanted to add this element to the conversation.


2- Posqim. Learning may not require knowing much about the world, but
applying that knowledge halakhah lemaaseh does.

A poseiq can only rely on experts once he knows enough to know when to
ask a question. When something that seems obvious may not be.

Picture a poseiq being asked about whether it is mutar to throw some
boy our of HS without knowing the world teenage boys are now living
in (subjected to?), what the norms are in yeshiva, out of yeshiva but
in our seviva, what temptations exist beyond the bubble...? Some psych,
some social work... Would the poseiq even know where to begin when
talking to an expert?

Would the expert end up being so relied upon that his choice of
presentation will pretty much determine the pesaq?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

--
Micha Berger             Today is the 11th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        1 week and 4 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Netzach sheb'Gevurah: What is imposing about
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            strict justice?
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