[Avodah] The Vilna Gaon and Secular Studies

[D Rubin]

R’ Moshe Yehudah,



Thank you for taking notice of my post!



‘Only a narrow band of Torah studies are benefited by a narrow band of secular studies’ - I agree with you - but only in part.



  1.  If I may add the word ‘directly’ to your statement (- ‘only a narrow band of Torah studies are *directly* benefited’), as, arguably, the entire thinking process is aided by a secular education [though admittedly, this was not the thrust of my original statement].
  2.  Re the case in point, Chullin and biology. Though, in general, the biology syllabus does not necessarily help in learning Chulin, biology could be taught in a manner that would: i.e. a teacher familiar with the various sugyos, could give a thorough grounding in anatomy, etc. This would be better than relying on Temunei Chol [or similar compilations], which (might) stifle critical thinking. Furthermore, an appreciable amount of Torah literature is based upon a medieval understanding of chemistry and anatomy. A fuller understanding of those thinking processes, coupled with a comparative study of [human] biology and the basics of modern chemistry, could conceivably open the door to a much fuller Torah experience. Indeed, a syllabus could conceivably be drawn up that would both benefit the Ben Torah and satisfy the requirements of an Examinatory Board.
  3.  Re maths; again, you are right, so far as a basic understanding of the sugyos are concerned. But to appreciate maths as a backbone of the world’s structure and thus marvel at theחכמת הבורא , to be able to extrapolate and apply mathematical theory to deeper areas of the Torah [which surely some of them will want to learn], requires a fundamental grounding in the subject.



Dovid Rubin



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________________________________
From: Moshe Yehuda Gluck <mgluck at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 9:10:49 AM
To: 'The Avodah Torah Discussion Group'
Cc: 'D Rubin'
Subject: RE: [Avodah] The Vilna Gaon and Secular Studies

R' Dovid Rubin:
<SNIP>Leaving English aside (G-d forbid they should be able to pick up a
secular book and actually understand it!), the mathematics they're taught
(in which [some of] the amoro'im, ge'onim, rishonim, acharonim were
tremendously proficient) at their last school year [12/13 yr olds!] is at a
level of 8/9 yr olds at best! Biology, which could so help them in their
study of Chullin is [virtually?] non-existent.
---------------

I'm cherry-picking one thing out of R' DR's post - he mentioned that biology
could so help them in their study of Chullin. In fact, this is an argument
that is often made (and has been made by me in the past, and I'm pretty sure
I saw it elsewhere in this thread as well): Learning secular studies is
necessary to help people in their Torah studies.

I'm not convinced anymore that that's true. I think that there's actually
only a very narrow band of Torah studies that are benefitted by a very
narrow band of secular studies. For example, I have a sefer written by a BMG
Rosh Chabura to help in understanding the trigonometry in Eiruvin. The
entire sefer (including the covers and flyleaf) is 20 pages long. Do those
sugyos in Eiruvin justify a full year of math instruction? (Trigonometry was
Math III when I was in high school in Monsey.) Why don't we just give
everyone learning Eiruvin a copy of this sefer, and skip Math III?

Same with biology. I passed my biology Regents. But as I recall, it wasn't
very helpful in learning Chullin. The most help I got was from Sefer Temunei
Chol, and that was enough to understand what was going on. So how is
learning Chullin a justification for spending a year on biology in high
school?

I can go on; my thesis is that there is not much basis to the argument that
a well-rounded education makes much of a difference in understanding Torah.
What would be much more efficient and effective would be a focused companion
sefer to Shas that gives the background on those sugyos that need some
secular knowledge in order to understand them.

KT,
MYG

P.S. Writing the above makes me want to start writing that companion sefer!


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