[Avodah] When Shabbos is Motzaei Rosh Chodesh

Akiva Miller akivagmiller at gmail.com
Mon Jun 18 04:56:14 PDT 2018


In just a few weeks, we will observe Rosh Chodesh Menachem Av. This
particular Rosh Chodesh is always only one day long, and this year it
happens to fall on Erev Shabbos. This means that when Shabbos occurs, Rosh
Chodesh will be over. I want to discuss the ramifications of a person who
begins Shabbos early in this situation.

Let's consider someone who begins Shabbos early, and arrives home and
begins his seudah before sunset. He will probably eat the bulk of his meal
before shkia or tzeis, perhaps even the *entire* meal. (I know that there
are poskim who advise one to eat a kezayis of bread after tzeis, but they
don't require it.) In my experience, mealtime goes much quicker when there
are fewer people at the table. This past Friday, for example, I went to a
very nice minyan, beginning Kabalas Shabbos and Maariv shortly after Plag,
I took a leisurely stroll home, and despite our best efforts at taking our
time through the meal, my wife and I were still ready for Birkas Hamazon a
full five minutes before shkiah.

In such a situation, what additions does one add to Birkas Hamazon? On a
regular Shabbos, of course one would include Retzeh. But when straddling
Rosh Chodesh and Shabbos, would one say Retzeh or Yaaleh V'yavo or both?

I don't recall ever learning about this particular situation. There is an
analogous but very different situation that I *have* seen discussed, namely
that of a Seuda Shlishit that begins on Shabbos Erev Rosh Chodesh, and
continues into Rosh Chodesh Motzaei Shabbos. In that case, the poskim give
a wide variety of answers, but (among the poskim who *don't* pasken to say
both) it is not always clear whether their rule is to base oneself on the
beginning of the meal, or the end of the meal, or the holier of the two
days. Further, some of them make a distinction, paskening differently for
one who is merely benching after tzeis but didn't actually eat after tzeis,
as opposed to one who actually ate [food in general or perhaps bread
specifically] after tzeis.

All that is a good starting point for my situation, but it is only a
starting point. A tremendous difference between the two cases is that in
the more common case, the calendar day DID change during the meal, to some
extent or another. But in the case that I'm asking about, the calendar day
did not actually change, only that the people involved are doing the
mitzvah of Tosefes Shabbos. To be more explicit: Imagine a couple that goes
to an early minyan on Erev Shabbos Rosh Chodesh Av. They daven Maariv, make
Kiddush, and say Birkas Hamazon, all before shkiah. Then, after benching
but still before shkiah, imagine that the wife gives birth to a boy. This
boy will have his bris milah a week later on *Erev* Shabbos, and his bar
mitzvah will be on Rosh Chodesh. Is it possible that his parents should
have omitted Yaaleh V'Yavo from Birkas Hamazon?

Of course, I understand that the answer may depend on details like whether
or not the meal continued after shika, or even past tzeis. But I am most
curious about the simple case, where benching was before shkiah. And the
other cases will perhaps flow from that one.

Any and all sources are appreciated. Thanks in advance. (Disclosure: I have
other questions about the calendar and a person who begins Shabbos early,
but I'm starting with this one, and perhaps I'll open new threads later
about the others.)

Akiva Miller
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20180618/b412bae7/attachment.html>


More information about the Avodah mailing list