[Avodah] truth telling

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 05:57:20AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: Agree but it can also mislead. So if ur child comes home and asks about
: the proof based on the Torah listing all the 4 animals that have only one
: kosher sign and u say nothing.....or his rabbi told him dinosaurs didn't
: exist. U can craft answers but istm as a society many subgroups don't.

Most subgroups who think there are only 4 animals with one such sign
and/or that dinosaurs don't exist aren't doing so to use a lie to
reenforce emunah. They believe what they're teaching.

So I don't think this example has much to do with the original question.

This is more about not contradicting a teacher, so as to enable the
child to trust what they learn of things other than emunah from them.
By postponing teaching emunah. (Most of which they won't get anyway;
real emunah requires more intellectual maturity. You typically teach
a child to deeply believe in a Old Man in the Sky or some more subtle
form of apiqursus if you try too hard to produce a young maamin.)


As I see it, the key questions are:

1- Is it even possible to gain more people through a lie than will be
risked because lies are eventually seen through? Does the question make
sense pragmatically?

And

2- Since most of us define emunah as being justified belief, rather than
blind faith, does belief that is founded on a lie even qualify as emunah?

I already suggested that I think it wouldn't fit the Rambam's definition,
but that few of us would consider that the halakhah lemaaseh criterion.
As I understand the Rambam's need for knowledge based on sound
philosphical proof -- to the explicit exclusion of justification by
personal experience or reliable sources, belief based on an error (even
someone else's error, like if there are more than 4 minim of animals
that have 1 siman) would also not be emunah.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A cheerful disposition is an inestimable treasure.
micha at aishdas.org        It preserves health, promotes convalescence,
http://www.aishdas.org   and helps us cope with adversity.
Fax: (270) 514-1507         - R' SR Hirsch, "From the Wisdom of Mishlei"