[Avodah] Chalav Yisrael: Required or recommended

[Zev Sero]

On 25/01/18 11:08, elazar teitz via Avodah wrote:
> As I have always understood it, there is no doubt on the part of any posek
> that chaleiv akum is an absolute issur, not a chumra, and not one that
> is subject to being overridden because of circumstance short of pikuach
> nefesh. The sole matter in dispute is what constitutes chaleiv akum.

That is not my understanding.

AIUI the Radbaz/Pri Chadash position is that there never was any gezera, 
but only a caution that since there is a serious concern about treife 
milk, therefore milk needs supervision.  Therefore where no such concern 
exists, no supervision is needed.

The Chasam Sofer says no, even where there is no serious concern Chazal 
made a gezera, and as RMF points out *only* where there is no serious 
concern did Chazal make a gezera, because where there is a serious 
concern no gezera was necessary.

AI further UI, the pre-RMF mekilim in the US were all relying on the 
Radbaz/Pri Chadash.  RMF utterly rejects this position, champions that 
of the Chasam Sofer that CY is a halacha, but says that commercial milk 
*is* CY.  Further, he must have publicised this position long before the 
published teshuvos, because in the first teshuvah he says there is no 
such thing as an observant Jew who is not makpid on CY, and those who 
drink commercial milk are relying on his psak.


On 25/01/18 13:20, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:

 > I don't understand RMF's position. If rei'yah could be fulfilled with
 > yedi'ah, based on his comparison to eidus, the gezeira doesn't seem to
 > add anything beyond the de'orasa, and the machloqes between the Peri
 > Chadash (really the Radbaz, the PC's maqor) and the Chasam Sofer loses
 > any nafqa mina lemaaseh.

Mid'oraisa no yediah is necessary.  If the circumstances are that there 
is no serious concern, one may drink milk.  If there is one, then 
whether one may drink it anyway mid'oraisa depends on whether one holds 
safek d'oraisa lechumra is d'oraisa or d'rabanan.  The PC says that is 
the whole story.  The CS says no, even when there's no serious concern 
Chazal decreed that one needs re'iyah, which RMF says means yedi'ah 
berurah, anan sahadi.

-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 2018 to all
zev at sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper