[Avodah] truth telling

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 09:36:06AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: Thought experiment: As a community, assume we know that we could tell
: a particular non truth to our children and X% would stay frum but if we
: told them the truth (X - Y)% would stay frum. At what values of X and Y
: (if any) would being not truthful be required and/or preferred?

I understand the point of your question as being about the relative value
of emes and of yir'as Shamayim. But...

I can't bend my head around the case for balebatishe reasons. Is it
not inevitable that many of our children would eventually learn of the
lie and lose confidence in the whole concept of mesorah? And wouldn't
that percentage inevitably be greater than Y, the additionaly percentage
who are only staying because they believe the non-truth?

To address the comparison behind the question:

According to the Rambam, emunah is defined by emes. Unproven faith isn't
emunah. So, he would say that the Y% of the children who believe because
of a lie aren't necessarily saved.

If we modernize the Rambam's position, then we would still need some kind
of valid justification. Even if modern philosophy believes (accuratly,
AISI) that theological proof is a meaningless concept, there are other
valid ways to reach a conclusion. Those of us blessed with children are
certain we love your chidren even though I never developed a proof for it.

BUT, I don't think too many people hold like a modern version of the
Rambam, which ties redemption to knowledge, and ethics is a lower
level of perfection necessary for true knowledge og G-d. Let's take
a more typical modern hashkafah, which gives priority to sheleimos or
experiential deveiqus.

Perhaps the non-truth would indeed be justified, if I thought your case
were possible. Just as shalom justifies tactfully bending the truth.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Man can aspire to spiritual-moral greatness
micha at aishdas.org        which is seldom fully achieved and easily lost
http://www.aishdas.org   again. Fulfillment lies not in a final goal,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      but in an eternal striving for perfection. -RSRH