[Avodah] Women and Torah Study

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, Dec 03, 2017 at 06:40:43AM +0000, RJR reposted here a comment
of his on a recent post on Lehrhaus:
: Is encouraging intensive study of Talmud for women a community priority
: or is the priority to make such study available for those who choose to
: avail themselves of the opportunity? Especially if the former, where
: does it stand in relation to other community priorities and how does
: the answer differ from study for men? IMHO these questions have not been
: sufficiently addressed. Do my concern resonate at all?

Mod-Yeshivish (in contrast to other forms of MO) may argue that since
learning primarily means shas and lomdus, and the iqar method for refining
one's soul is learning, now that women are given the toolds to be able to
make sense of Talmud, making it available to them is a community priority.

To quote RALichtenstein from
<https://www.thelehrhaus.com/commentary/women-talmud-study-and-avodat-hashem>:

   What is the cardinal principle that lies at the heart, on the one hand,
   of Yeshiva education and, on the other hand, is the lynchpin of liberal
   education. It is, first and foremost, the notion that one is concerned
   with molding the person and only secondarily with preparing or training
   for the fulfillment of a certain role. John Cardinal Newman's
   statement, that "we are men by nature, geometrists only by chance,"
   epitomizes this approach and it is one with respect to which, I have
   indicated, the Yeshiva world and the world of liberal education at its
   best coincide.

   Of course, that is not to suggest that preparing for a role, be it a
   domestic role, a professional role, or a communal role, is not
   important. It is important, but secondary. The first principle, I
   think, with regard to education generally, and which needs to be
   particularly emphasized in the field of women's education, is that
   first and foremost one needs to mold the person as an individual in all
   respects, with regard to character, personality, intellectual ability,
   and above all, of course, in religious terms, as an oved Hashem.
   ...
   If we ask ourselves: Here are the goals! "[leyir'ah, le'avah, la'avod,
   lishmor, ledavqah, lalekhet bekhol derakhav]," to fear [God], to love
   [God], to serve [God], to cling [to Him] to go in all His ways." What
   are the means? Traditionally, over the centuries, there has been a
   fairly sharp dichotomy precisely regarding this very issue, namely
   the means to be employed in relation to men versus women...

   This is not the occasion to examine whether that was justified
   historically. What is clear, however, is that notwithstanding how one
   judges the past retrospectively, in our present historical and social
   setting we need to view the teaching and the learning of girls and
   women as both a major challenge, as well as a primary need.
   ...

But this is creating a role for halakhah study out of whole cloth that
is really RAL's chiddush. After all, historically curricula for girls'
and women did include character-shaping material, but OVERTLY so --
mussar, hashkafah and the lessons in each taken from studying Tanakh.
And leave halakhah to learning the job, rather than liberal arts.

And I would repeat a point made by RYGB when asked about this topic:
Where is the evidence that our current boys' curriculum works so well
that we're in a rush to make the curriculum for girls' more similar to it?

In general, the yeshivish -- including the ModY -- take NhC shaar 4 to
mean that learning refines the soul in some mystical way. Just learn, and
the problem will solve itself. Whereas I personally think the data points
the other way. And that the NhC intended that statement prescriptively --
true talmud Torah is learning in a way that consciously aims to refine
the soul. Which is why there is all that Mussar and Middos talk around
AishDas and its web site.

My own inclination, and this really just translates to "my parents
provided a RWMO upbrining" (with some variety thrown in in the form
of school choices), would be that we can't prioritize providing talmud
study for women over clear-cut chiyuvim.

Talmud study should be made available, but for those women who feel
a need for talmud study. Which puts me in the same camp as the LR's
effective position. Women coming to kiruv with egalitarian leanings were
encouraged by the LR to learn Talmud if they wish to. But you wont find
a gemara class in Beis Rivka.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "And you shall love H' your G-d with your whole
micha at aishdas.org        heart, your entire soul, and all you own."
http://www.aishdas.org   Love is not two who look at each other,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      It is two who look in the same direction.