[Avodah] Torah precheit?

Akiva Miller akivagmiller at gmail.com
Thu Oct 19 02:47:09 PDT 2017


.
R' Chaim Manaster asked:

> I have been trying to understand what the geshtalt of Torah
> was precheit of the eitz hadaas. It could not have resembled
> anything that we ( I ) would recognize today. Consider:
> There was but one mitzva. Most if not all the mitzvos of the
> Torah we are familiar with could not have existed, at least
> as we understand them today. Had Adam been successful in his
> one day tafkid the purpose of the bria would have been
> accomplished and Adam (mankind) would have gone to olom haba
> – mission accomplished nothing more to follow but for reward
> in olom haba.
>
> The many consequences seem to be as follows: there would be
> no avdus in Mitzrayim, therefore no ... ...

One can ask similar questions about other turning-points in history.
What if Kayin had not killed Hevel? What if the world has not gone to
Avodah Zara a few generations later? What if Yishmael and/or Esav had
not gone of the derech? What if Moshe Rabenu had acted differently by
the rock?

I believe that people are too hung up on the idea that "Torah" and the
Chumash are identical. They are not. "The Torah has 70 faces", and ONE
of them is the written scroll that we read from in shul. Another is
the Torah Sheb'al Peh. Another was that one singular mitzvah that Adam
HaRishon was given. None is less holy than any other. They are but
different facets of the same diamond.

And there are yet others. Torah manifests itself differently to a
kohen than to a levi, and differently to a woman than to a man. And so
on. For example:

> As there would never be an Eretz Yisroel, then there would not
> be all the mitzvot hateltuot ba’aretz – trumos, masros etc., etc.

Or perhaps Gan Eden would have had that status. Eretz Yisrael is
actually a great example: Consider the idea that true nevuah can exist
only in Eretz Yisrael. But also consider that this restriction only
started when EY got its kedushah - prior to that point one could have
nevuah elsewhere too. Logically, I would think that the kedusha of EY
enabled this thing that couldn't exist without such intense kedusha;
but counter-intuitively, this thing that has long existed is now
suddenly restricted to a specific area. Because times change, and
people change; the Torah stays the same but it shows a different face.

We are so used to how things are today, that we think things have
always been this way. But it ain't so.

> So what is the nature of Torah in such a world. How do we
> see it as an ever constant ever present and unchanging
> Torah? How does a Torah with but ONE mitzva look? How does
> it still identify with a Torah with 613 mitzvot?

There are many mitzvos that apply only at specifc times and under
specific circumstances. Consider the back-and-forth of when bamos were
allowed and not allowed. We went for quite a few centuries with
choosing a human king. I am deliberately trying to avoid mitzvos that
have sociological criteria, like the existence of a Sanhedrin, or
whether or not we are capable of tochacha. Rather, my point goes to
this "Torah with 613 mitzvot" that you refer to. It doesn't exist
today, and I don't know if it ever has existed. There has certainly
never been a person to whom they all applied, and I wonder whether
there was ever a generation when they were all in force.

> Sorry if my thoughts were very rambling. I just typed as
> things came to mind – maybe not always a good idea!

On the contrary, brainstorming is often a fruitful way of developing
new thoughts! Personally, it was many decades ago that someone asked
me, "If there is life on other planets, might they possibly have a
Torah? But Mitzrayim doesn't exist there, and Moshe never lived
there!" That question bothered me for a very long time, until I
realized that even on *this* planet, Noach had his version of Torah,
and that was centuries before Mitzrayim or Moshe came to be.

(To conflate two threads, I think what I'm saying here is very similar
to what R"n Lisa Liel wrote in the "eitz hachaim" thread. These things
aren't static; their roles change to fit the situation.)

Akiva Miller



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