[Avodah] OU paper

[Noam Stadlan]

R. Micha- thank you for taking the time to read the paper.  Having read
your list of criticisms, I think that in your search for reasons to oppose,
you missed many of the points completely.  Poskim are certainly entitled to
their opinions. They are not entitled to their own facts.  If their logic
doesn't hold up, it is reasonable to call them on the lack of logic.  Which
is why the paper is NOT about my opinions versus the OU 7, but about the
lack of facts and logic.  Furthermore, I illustrated that what poskim hold
regarding these issues isn't always or exclusively a result of all their
learning and shimmush.  It is a demonstrable fact that many attitudes
reflect what they grew up with and were indoctrinated with early on, not
the list of influences that they write about.

You dismiss my quote regarding REB, and claim that it is my responsibility
to prove what the motives are or aren't.  This is ridiculous.  The OU
authors did not talk to any of the principles involved.  Since when is it
acceptable for any responsible posek or beit din to make important
judgments without making absolutely sure regarding the facts?  Especially
when they are making a significant deal about motivation and  it would have
been a very simple matter of making a phone call or two.  Isn't that a
basic obligation of a posek?  And then to claim that it is my
responsibility to prove that they were wrong?  And, by the way, since I
personally know many of the people involved, I have a much greater
familiarity with what people involved think.

I suggest that if you think that an organization with 'feminism' in its
name is inherently problematic, we may be starting from basic assumptions
far to wide apart  to see any common ground.

The OU paper wrote about Mesorah versus modern values.  I was just using
their words and addressing the role of modern values in how Halacha and
values have changed.  The fact that they define Mesorah a bit differently
doesn't change the issue nor change the fact that modern values have always
been incorporated into the Halakhah and Halakhic values(in case you dont
want to use the word Mesorah).  And to counter your point, some of the
ancient values have gone out the window, whether you want to call them
mesoretic or not.

I didn't have time to get into all the particulars of the halachic aspects
of the Rama and shechittah,   R. Brody and Broyde address and dismiss the
argument in their paper(I am pretty sure that is in a footnote somewhere).
I thought it was adequate to illustrate that he was factually wrong.


I could go on and on but I sense that in the end it will not matter.  I
would have to go through each and every line of your critique and point out
where your assumptions are wrong.  For example "JOFA....seeking value in
the same sorts of roles and activities".  NO, that is not what JOFA is
about.  It is about not creating Halachic boundaries when there shouldn't
be any, and the women can decide what roles and activities they can and
should assume(within Halacha of course, just like the men).  And what is
wrong with  anyone finding value in learning Torah, teaching Torah, helping
people celebrate s'machot, organizing davening, etc? women should not find
value in that????



Thank you again for taking the time to read the paper.
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