[Avodah] Maris Ayin, Kidney Fats of a Chaya; BP meat is not named Bassar ....

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53:10AM +1000, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
: It seems that all agree with the outline re application of Maris Ayin
:  presented in an earlier message.
: The counter arguments/responses seem to be addressing peripheral matters.

Except my intent was to argue with your central thesis.

As in:
: R Micha seems to be saying that the outline suggested to describe the
: application of Maris Ayin seems to be an artificial construct.
: Would you please explain how and/or why?

This doesn't fit the very definition of mar'is ayin. Start with the words
themselves, which have nothing to do with dividing the world by the labels
we give things, and entirely about how the act looks or would look to an
observer.

See IM OC 1:96, 2:40, 4:82.

In 2:40 RMF draws our attention to the distinction between mar'is ayin and
cheshad. Mar'is ayin is where someone may think that what you're doing is
indeed the issur, and therefore concludes that if someone as upstanding
as you are doing it, it must either not be assur or even if assur,
not a big deal. Reassassing the issur. Cheshad is where they realize
that what it looks like you're doing is assur, and they reassess you
downward because of what they think you did. Neither logically depend
on how we name things. Unless we're worried that someone may see half
of the label on the "almond milk".

But here you aren't even discussing common naming, but halachic
categorization. How does the idea that PQ not having a chalos sheim of
meat WRT basar bechalav (as per the Or Sameiach) change whether people
will think they saw you eating milk with regular meat?

Tangent:

: Reb Meir Simcha of Dvinsk explains in Meshech Chochmah, that no sin was
: transgressed since it was BP meat, which may be cooked with milk...

WADR to the MC, I don't understand where he gets the idea that the goats
and the milk were cooked together.

As the Baalei Tosafos and Chizquni ad loc note, the pasuq (18:8) can
easily be read as Avraham having served them a two course meal. The first
course being chem'ah and chalav, and the second being the ben habaqar.
After all, shechting and kashering the animals would take time, and so
the DZBT explains that the milchigs was to that they wouldn't have to
wait to eat.

The Baalei Tosafos note the contradiction between that explanation and the
one you mentioned, about them having eaten basar bechalav at Avraham's.
(My 2 cents: And what 3 angels do, they all have to pay for?)

Radaq ad loc says that Avraham gave them a choice of milchigs or fleishigs.

But if there is no proof they ate meat and milk together -- which as
non-Jews they could -- where is the MC's indication that Avraham cooked
them together?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             For a mitzvah is a lamp,
micha at aishdas.org        And the Torah, its light.
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