[Avodah] The 93 Beit Yaakov Martyrs: A Modern Midrash

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 01:05:59PM -0400, Zev Sero via Areivim wrote:
: On 25/07/17 12:18, Prof. Levine via Areivim wrote:
:> Even today there are people who are willing to believe fantastic
:> stories that could not possibly be true.  Some years ago there was
:> the story of the so-called talking fish.  There were people who
:> did indeed believe it.  I once discussed this story with a
:> neighbor and pointed out that it had been debunked.  She replied,
:> "But it could have happened."  I decided not to say more.

: You are not required to believe that this story did happen, but you
: *are* required to believe that it could have happened.  To claim
: that He Who gave man a mouth cannot give one to a donkey or a fish
: is apikorsus.

Not 100%, it depends on the modality of the words "could" and "possibly"
here.

Yes, HQBH could do anything, the question of whether "anything" includes
the paradoxical I will leave for the rishonim to argue.

But there are things we know He wouldn't do. Such as rewarding sin.
(And don't quibble about rewarding it in the short term for some other
purpose, later punishment, or whatever. There is an iqar that overall
net-net-net, sin is punished.)

And if someone believes that HQBH wouldn't give a fish the power to talk
during an era of hesteir panim, I would not label them an apiqoreis. In
fact, I would be inclined to agree.

And therefore, the story "could not possibly be true" if we limit our
possibilities to the world of things that don't defy what we believe
about Retzon haBorei.

Quoting the rest not because I have what to say about it, but
because it more belongs on Avodah than on Areivim:
: The set of true events is necessarily an infinitesimal subset of the
: set of possible events, which is in turn an infinitesimal subset of
: the set of conceivable events.  Whether a talking fish is in the
: first set is a question of evidence, and skepticism is appropriate,
: but whether it's in the second set or only in the third set is a
: question of emunah.

: I have not heard that the story was in fact debunked, and I wonder
: whether this is true, but if so it doesn't surprise me.  Such
: stories are more likely to be hoaxes than true...

:> There are people today who insist on taking midrashim literally
:> even though both RSRH and Reb Yisroel Salanter said that they were
:> not to be taken literally.

: What if they did say this?  No matter how often you pretend they are
: the definitive voices of Judaism, and all Jews must accept their
: opinions, it won't be any truer.

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Zion will be redeemed through justice,
micha at aishdas.org        and her returnees, through righteousness.
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