[Avodah] Redemption

[Ben Bradley via Avodah]

Akiva Miller wrote:
 'I must admit that I never before noticed that "lo sikom v'lo sitor"
only applies to Jews. I had always presumed it to be a general law of
 morality and ethics, much like Lashon Hara. I never thought it to be
in the "Ribis" category.
There seem to be three categories: (A) Things that may may not do even
to non-Jews, such as stealing. (B) Things that are technically allowed
against non-Jews, but we are taught to avoid it, such as Lashon Hara.
(C) Things that we may not do to a Jew, but are clearly allowed with a
non-Jew, such as Ribis.'

I think this categorisation may need refining. It assumes that the Torah doesn't want us to do unethical things to non Jews either by black letter law or by unlegislated preference. The problem with this is that the Torah assumes that non-Jews are ovdei Avoda Zara and some mitzvos are specifically intended to malign them as such. Take Lo Sechaneim - The gemara learns that we can't even praise a non Jew, never mind be kind in a more concrete way. Gerei Toshav don't have this prohibition but the pshat din of the Torah is that it applies to non-Jews stam.

In other words the mitzvos of the Torah treat non-Jews as transgressors and so it's likely that at least some of thing the otherwise unethical things we are allowed to do to them are due to this status.

So we need at least to distinguish between what is allowed to any non-Jew and what is prohibited to a Ger Toshav.

For example Ribis is clearly allowed even to a Ger Toshav. It's not unethical per se, just prohibited to a family member viz a Jew.



So we need possibly, categories of:

A) forbidden to everyone

B) Forbiden to Jews and Gerei Toshav but totally allowed to Ovdei Avoda Zara

C) Technically allowed to non-Jews of whichever category but best avoided as a bad midda

D) Forbidden to Jews but totally allowed to all non Jews



Re nekama, I think, subject to correction, that it is only ever positive when by Hashem or on his behalf. The nekama on Midian is 'nikmas Hashem m'es HaMidianim'. We needed to be commanded in order to do it.  Hashem is 'El nekamos Hashem' in Tehilim. If anyone has a source for it being a positive thing to take personal revenge then let's hear it. Not sure the agadeta of Yaakov waking and smiling fits that bill. Otherwise the Rambam's placing of nekama in De'os as a bad midda should tell us what we need to know about it. That would be consistent with nekama being forbidden against Gerei Toshav, although we haven't found a source for that (yet).



Lisa Liel wrote:

'I would argue that the very idea of (B) implies the imposition of an
outside ideology onto the Torah.  Because the Torah certainly doesn't
label anything as morally wrong and yet permitted against non-Jews.  '



The Torah clearly allows things which it considers morally wrong - Shivya Nochris for example. And the gemara says that's assur to bring one's wife as a Soteh, yet it's a whole parsha in the Torah. And the Ramban's naval birshus haTorah. Seems to me the Torah sets a floor, not a ceiling, and prompts growth through the mitzvos. Isn't that the whole thrust of Hilchos De'os?



Ben




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20170614/e5114af3/attachment-0004.htm>