[Avodah] 10 tribes -- exile without redemption

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

On 09/06/17 16:03, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 09, 2017 at 03:51:40PM -0400, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
> : >In Yevamos...
> : >Shemu'el (17a) actively sought and found a way to prove that by his
> : >day, the descendent of the 10 shevatim were non-Jews.
> :
> : Actively sought and found?!  He simply gave a historical fact
> 
> "Amar lei: Lo zazu misham ad she'as'um aku"m gemurim." I misspoke;
> he was reporting that others proactively looked for a way to hold the
> issur wouldn't hold. (I remember "lo azuz...")

No, he wasn't.  Lo zazu misham has no connection to finding a solution 
to any problem, and there's no indication that "they" were even thinking 
of this problem.  It's simply a statement that it was agreed upon by all 
that the pasuk makes the ten tribes (or at least their men) nochrim. No 
connection to any practical problem.


> : the women of that generation were all miraculously sterile so there
> : never were any descendants.  Rav Assi hadn't been aware of this.
> 
> That's Ravina.

No, it isn't.  It's Shmuel himself, answering why the womens' 
descendants are not a problem -- they didn't have any.

Ravina is the one who says the halacha we all know, that the child of a 
nochri and a Yisre'elis is a Yisrael.


> Shemu'el works from Hosheia 5:7, "BaH' bogdu, ku banim zarim yuladu".
> Which is inconsistent with Ravina.

It's irrelevant to Ravina, because in this lashon he isn't citing the 
general halacha about the child of a Yisrael and a nochris being a 
nochri, but instead says those children (of the men with nochriyos) were 
ruled to be nochrim from the pasuk.  The women's children still aren't a 
problem, because there weren't any.

But even if you say that according to the second lashon Shmuel didn't 
say the women were sterile, and he meant the pasuk to apply to both the 
men and the women, still it's specifically about them, not meshumadim in 
general.



-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
zev at sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all