[Avodah] 10 tribes -- exile without redemption

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

On 09/06/17 14:08, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> 
> In Yevamos 16b, R' Assi says that if a nakhri marries a Jewish woman,
> we have to worry that maybe the man was from one of the 10 shevatim.

Only if he's from the countries where they were taken.

> Shemu'el (17a) actively sought and found a way to prove that by his
> day, the descendent of the 10 shevatim were non-Jews.

Actively sought and found?!  He simply gave a historical fact; the women 
of that generation were all miraculously sterile so there never were any 
descendants.  Rav Assi hadn't been aware of this.

As for the men's descendants by nochriyos, according to the first lashon 
Shmuel derived from the pasuk that they're nochrim, and according to the 
second lashon it's a halacha pesukah ("lo zazu misham").   But according 
to either lashon the problem of the women was solved.

Also, there's no "by his day".  Either the problem was solved within one 
generation, or it was never solved at all.


Not by his day.  By at latest the 2nd BHMK.  Either Yirmiyahu brought 
them back, so they're not there any more, or the first generation had no 
children so they died out then and there, or the Sanhedrin decreed them 
to be goyim.


> R' Chaim Brisker

Where is this R Chaim?


> uses this idea to propose that the children of meshumadim are not
> halachically Jewish -- there are limits to Judaism by descent.

On what basis?  Unlike the ten tribes' descendants, these children 
exist.  How can they not be Jewish?

Even if you want to say the second lashon applies to both the men and 
women, and it means they lost their Jewish status,  this was not a 
gezera, it was derived from a pasuk, that Hashem took away their Jewish 
status, so in the absence of any pasuk about other people how can it be 
extended?


-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
zev at sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all