[Avodah] [Areivim] Better to die

[Ben Bradley via Avodah]

I didn't think I was giving two answers, just clarifying further. So, let's work through it again. I must admit I have looked at neither Rishonim (except Rambam) nor achronim. But here goes:

The gemara says that this smitten man must not even even have a conversation through a partition with the object of his desire on pain of YaVY. The gemara then says that this works fine for an eishes ish, The first question should be why that's obvious? Since when is conversation with an eishes ish YvAY? We answered that by saying, al pi Rambam, that the point of the gemara is to clarify how far we apply YvAY to hana'as issur arayos. The answer, which is surprising to us  but causes the gemara no problem is that , even sexual hana'a from a conversation carries the din YvAY.

That's the first man d'amar. The second MdA , that we mean even a penuya, causes the gemara problems because there's apparently no problem of hana'a from a penuya, or at least certainly not involving YvAY and certainly not from a conversation. So mai kulei hai?

The chiddush here is that we're even gozer YvAY on hana'a from a penuya due to societal considerations of bnos yisrael not being hefker etc.


However, the bottom line for our original reason for analysing this gemara remains that it's not part of the cheshbon governing any standard interactions in which any ben Torah might participate, as it only applies to someone sick enough to have inevitable sexual hana'a from a conversation.

R Micha's two correspondents can feel free to challange that whether off or on list.

BW
Ben


Unless, as in your first email, the issue is more about rewarding the guy
for letting his taavos get so worked up.

I see a slight conflict in your answers.

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