[Avodah] Redemption

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

On 13/06/17 21:33, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> R' Zev Sero wrote:

>> It seems to me that all the mitzvos that enjoin special
>> consideration for one's fellow yidden are based on the mitzvah
>> of V'ahavta.  Since you must love him, therefore you must not
>> hold grudges against him, let alone take revenge, must lend
>> him what he needs without charging interest, must not gossip
>> about him, must not stand by while he's in danger, etc.

> I would think that killing and stealing are in this category too.

No, those are inherently wrong, no matter who is the victim.  You don't 
need to love someone in order not to kill them, hit them, steal from 
them, damage their property, etc.  They have the right not to have these 
things done to them, so you may not do so even if you actively hate 
them.  They have the right to be treated with common decency.  Or, in 
the lashon of libertarianism, non-aggression, i.e. not to have you 
initiate force or fraud against them.  Whereas they have no right to any 
favors from you; you have no duty to lift a finger to help them or to 
give them anything.  Doing favors for people is a gift which you 
naturally give only to those you love; the Torah therefore commands you 
to give it to those whom it wants you to love.

> But
> you would then point to the phrase "special consideration". In other
> words, there is a particular shiur of consideration. Some actions are
> below that shiur; they are so basic that they apply even to non-Jews.
> And other actions are above that shiur; it is "special" consideration
> that we extend to family, but not to outsiders.

No, it's not a matter of degree but of kind.

> I would accept such a response, but it isn't very helpful. Exactly
> what is that shiur? Where do we put the line? I have always thought
> that *all* these things are basic menschlichkeit, and apply to
> everyone, Jewish or not.

No, they are not.

>> Where do you see that LH about strangers is to be avoided?
>> The pasuk says "lo telech rachil *be`amecha*", and "makeh
>> *re`ehu* basater".

> That's just two pesukim. Sefer Chofetz Chayim brings a lot more than
> that - 31 if I remember correctly.

The hakama to CC is mussar, so he piles on pesukim, but it you look at 
them they all pretty much flow from a very few sources, all of which 
specify "re'echa" or "amecha", etc.

> The point is that ribis is NOT
> inherently immoral. It *can* be abused and thereby *become* immoral.
> But if done properly, it is a neutral (or even benevolent) business
> tool.

So are all these other things.  They're normal and natural behaviour 
between people who don't necessarily like each other, but one would 
never treat someone one genuinely loved like that, so the Torah tells us 
that we must not treat our fellow yisre'elim like that.


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-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
zev at sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all