[Avodah] 10 tribes -- exile without redemption

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Fri, Jun 09, 2017 at 05:32:23PM +0300, Lisa Liel via Avodah wrote:
: On 6/9/2017 6:06 PM, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
:> Why was the exile of the 10 Tribes permanent (putting aside any
:> modern day claims of people claiming they're descendants)?

: Who says it was?

First, I think we concluded among ourselves that the 10 lost tribes
are really 9+1 lost tribes, with Shim'on, living in Malkhus Yisrael,
being a separate case. With, perhaps, it's own spiritual malais. They
lived amongst sheivet Yehudah; is it likely their culture was more like
Yisrael than their own neighbors?

With that tangent out of the way...

It's a machloqes tannaim in Sanhedrin 10:3 (110b), no?

"The 10 shevatim are not destined to return, 'Vayashlikheim el eretz
achares kayom hazah' (Devarim 29) [derashah elided]... divrei R' Aqiva.

"R' Eliezer omer: [his own derashah] ... even as the 10 shevatim went
through the darkening, so too it will grow light for them.

The gemara's discussion focuses on the previous part of the mishnah's
machloqs -- their olam haba.

But Rebbe says they do have olam haba and seems to be implying that the
kaparah is total -- so they will return to EY.

The Sifra (Bechuqosai 8:1) has R' Aqiva saying they won't return, but
based on (Vayiqra 26:38), "vavadtem bagoyim..." And it has R' Meir as
the one disagreeing with R' Aqiva.

In Yevamos 16b, R' Assi says that if a nakhri marries a Jewish woman,
we have to worry that maybe the man was from one of the 10 shevatim.
Shemu'el (17a) actively sought and found a way to prove that by his
day, the descendent of the 10 shevatim were non-Jews. R' Chaim Brisker
uses this idea to propose that the children of meshumadim are not
halachically Jewish -- there are limits to Judaism by descent. Which R'
Aharon Lichtenstein uses as a snif not to support giving them Israeli
citizenship in "Brother Daniel and the Jewish Fraternity."


:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Life isn't about finding yourself.
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