[Avodah] Two days [was: kitniyot]

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

On 28/04/17 05:33, Lisa Liel via Avodah wrote:
> I think it's a false dichotomy.  We assume that zman matan Toratenu is
> the calendar date on which the Torah was given.  Clearly, that's not the
> case.  Zman matan Toratenu is 50 days after the calendar date on which
> we left Egypt.  Our receiving the Torah was an inextricable part of the
> Exodus.

Which would work fine except that the Torah *wasn't* given on the 50th 
day but on the 51st.  So when the the 50th day falls on the 5th or 7th 
of Sivan it is neither the calendar anniversary *nor* the pseudo-Julian 
anniversary.

Therefore I assume they did *not* say ZMT.  In fact I assume they didn't 
say it even when it *did* fall on the 6th, since that was just a 
coincidence.  Only when it was set to fall on the 6th every year did it 
take on a new nature as ZMT.

This is all, however, on the assumption that we hold like the opinion 
that yetzias mitzrayim was on a Thursday.   This is the basis of the 
entire sugya in Perek R Akiva Omer that we all know.  But right at the 
end of that sugya, at the top of 88a a new source is suddenly cited, the 
Seder Olam, that YM was on a Friday, and the gemara seems to say "Aha! 
Forget everything we said till now, trying to reconcile the Rabbanan's 
opinion, now everything is simple: the Seder Olam follows the Rabbanan, 
YM was on a Friday, and MT was 50 days later on the 6th of Sivan, and 
the sources we've been working with, that say YM was on a Thursday, 
follow R Yossi, who says MT was on the 7th.

So for years I've wondered why it is that we seem to ignore this source 
and continue to maintain that YM was on Thursday, even though it means 
accepting the strained explanations the gemara comes up with to 
reconcile them before it found the Seder Olam.  If the SO was enough for 
the gemara to overthrow its earlier discussion, why isn't it enough for 
us?



-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
zev at sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all