[Avodah] prof berger

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Sun, Mar 05, 2017 at 09:29:01PM -0800, saul newman via Avodah wrote:
: headlines  featured an interview w prof  berger on chabad issues of
: messianism. the host felt that rabbi kotlarsky's assertion on a prior show
: that anyone praying to the rebbe instead of RBSO...

But this is a mi'ut delo shekhiachah. WADR to R/Dr Berger, this is a
non-issue, a battle against a handful of people of questionable mental
stability.

:                  a messianic  shochet need be further questioned to
: determine if he believes that the rebbes are the atzmus of Hashem in an
: avoda zara sense.

"Ah rebbe iz atzmus umahus vos hot zich areingeshtelt in a guf" isn't
about praying to him.

As I have written here in the past, the concept is more useful to compare
or contrast against Buddhism than against Yeishu.

See RJJB's http://thanbook.blogspot.com/2006/04/chabad-rebbe-and-god.html
A useful snippet:

   Chabad acosmism: God is One and Unchanging both before and after the
   Tzimtzum and Creation. The Tzimtzum, far from creating a physical space
   inside Hashem (as the Ari writes plainly in the Etz Chayim), was a
   spiritual restriction, a veiling, as it were, of the Infinite Light so
   that the created world could stand it without perishing. Then the world
   was created after the tzimtzum. However, since God is no different
   after the Creation than He was before, and since He is the sole Unity,
   it follows that the world has no separate physical existence. Rather,
   the world is in some way a part of God. I am part of God, you are part
   of God, the trees and rocks are parts of God, the PC is part of God,
   etc. That is the reality of the Universe from God's perspective. It is
   only from our perspective that we imagine the rock to have physical
   existence, that I have physical existence, that the PC has physical
   existence.

   This is symbolized by the verse "Hashem is God, there is none besides."

So, a rebbe is an embodiment of G-d, but in a sense so is everythying else.

In Mahayana Buddhism, all of the world is an illusion. There is only the
Absolute One. Lehavdil Chabad's very literal take of "ein od milvado" and
their whole understanding of yeish mei'Ayin (which by their explanation
requires capitalization of the "A").

The bodhisattva, having been able to pierce this illusion, that creation
holds distinct items hangs around this world to help others do the
same. Compare to the L notion that while everything is G-d, because
tzimtzum is taken as metaphoric, and the rebbe, as the yechidah of the
national soul, is able to connect to that. HQBH medabeir mitokh gerono
shel Moshe - haRebbe bedoro keMoshe bedoro.

The only difference, and it's not a small one, is that in Buddhism, they
don't link the one-ness of Buddha nature to a concept of Divine Will,
or Divinity altogether. IOW, very different concepts of Absolute One.

: there were sources the host brought up ,  bavli and yerushalmi , that would
: seem to indicate that at some point it was normative to believe in a
: messianic second coming---ie an asserted messiah who failed in the
: messianic mission and then dies is currently believed to be a false
: messiah, but that idea was not initially held

Not normative, but a permissible false belief. As R Aharon Soloveitchik
wrote in 1994, non-normative; in 1996 - non-heretical; in 2000 -- clarified
the 1996 letter to explain he did not intend to contradict what he wrote
in 1994:
   To my great dismay... publications affiliated with the Lubavitch
   movement have persisted in stating that I validate their belief that a
   Jewish Messiah may be resurrected from the dead. I completely reject and
   vigorously deny any such claim. As I have already stated publicly...
   such a belief is repugnant to Judaism and is the antithesis of the
   truth. My intent in signing the original letter... was merely to
   express my opinion that we should not label subscribers to these beliefs
   as heretics. Any statements in that letter which imply an endorsement of
   their view were not shown to me at the time I signed and I once again
   repudiate any such ridiculous claim.

Repugnant to the spirit of Judaism, but not hertical (apiqursus, meenus
or kefirah). And, as per the 1996 letter, not reason to turn our backs
on people who do so much good for the Jewish People.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The meaning of life is to find your gift.
micha at aishdas.org        The purpose of life
http://www.aishdas.org   is to give it away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                     - Pablo Picasso