[Avodah] Tichleh Regel Min Hashuk

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Wed, Jan 04, 2017 at 05:53:41AM -0500, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: I thank RZS and RMB for reminding me about the idea of the Tarmudaim. But
: what has been cited thus far is not really relevant to the question I
: brought. It doesn't matter whether "tarmudaim" are the sellers or the
: buyers, and it certainly doesn't matter what sort of merchandise is
: involved.

But it does matter whether or not they're Jews. As Zev just posted.

...
: Here's another way of phrasing it: If Pirsumei Nisa on Friday night is
: dependent on commercial activity, and there is zero commercial activity
: among the Jews at that time, then the Pirsumei Nisa on Friday night MUST be
: referring to the non-Jews.

I don't know if it is. It's dependent on people walking around in
the street. Presumably that ends earlier on Fri night. Unless your
neighborhood had Fri night father-and-son learning in the winter.

I took the Tamudaim as a reference that made sense to people of that
culture in terms of describing a particular kind of trickle of people
they would immediately visualize. And not about the financial aspect.

The question is how tightly the din is tied to the rationale. Is it
ad shetikhleh regel min hashuq on your street? What if you live in
a retirement village, where evenings end earlier? (Insert jokes about
"early bird special" dinners here. But the truth behind the joke is
that older people do tend to go to bed earlier.)

And what about someone who lives in a town that has significant numbers
of mechalelei Shabbos? Which is the norm nowadays. One can be doing
pirsumei nisa even for a Jewish audience while business is still going
on.

Can you light later on New Year's eve? (Zos Chanukah, this year?)

Or is it that the time is for the typical street on a typical night?
Which would justify applying ad shetikhleh to someone who lives in
the middle of nowhere, lighting just for himself and/or family.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Weeds are flowers too
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