[Avodah] Rav Melamed on Metal Pots

Isaac Balbin via Avodah avodah at lists.aishdas.org
Tue Nov 1 19:01:26 PDT 2016


> I am lost. RMF makes a convincing argument that nosein ta'am is not an
> issue for stam yeinam, such as sherry casks. His proof, bitul besheish.
> One part wine to 6 parts water is easily tastable.

> Leshitaso, 1:6 works because too much mezigah, and the mixture isn't
> yayin -- as the gemara says WRT 4 kosos. One doesn't need bitul, because
> the gezeira of stam yeinam doesn't apply.

> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha

Rav Weiss starts the Tshuva by saying that it has been shown to
be permitted by many before him and expresses surprise why he is
being asked. He then goes onto give some new reasons why it should be
permitted. One of them is what I wrote: Where do we have a source for
Nosen Taam, taking many years? Was that Chazal's definition too? According
to Rav Weiss, throughout Shas, the Taam, happens "automatically" with
the mixture. Now, I acknowledge his point, but I have trouble when the
outcome (taste) is the same (even if it took 8 years to happen). Rav
Weiss goes onto also argue that in blind tests, most people won't know the
difference between whether there was ageing in a wine-based cask or not,
as support for his view. I am somewhat of a whisky lover, and I feel that
I could pass some blind tests, however, in one of the Shules I attended
many years ago, the Gabbay used to keep some expensive bottles and pour
blended cheap whisky in them. We used to have a rule. If it's an open
bottle, don't trust what you are drinking :-) He was a holocaust survivor,
so we didn't dare meddle in his kitchen lest he give us a Misheberach.

It seems that the cRc are the main authority which investigates
and has ruled that many whiskys (and other alcoholic beverages) are
"not recommended" according to the list on their iPhone app which is
regularly updated. The OU however seems to have stepped up to the plate
by increasing the number of whisky's which are from plain casks and
therefore have the OU stamp on them, so that those who want whiskys with
a reliable Hechsher can purchase it. At home, I have "Mehadrin" whisky
and if I host an event, I generally put that out. I do have sherry cask
whisky, and will provide it for someone whose "nose is out of joint" when
they see what is being offered. I haven't discussed this issue with Mori
V'Rabbi Rav Schachter. Does anyone reliably know his personal opinion on
the issue? In the OU itself, he and Rav Belsky z"l didn't always agree,
but mostly they did. There is an internal Sefer at the OU with Tshuvos on
the issues where they disagreed. The OU policy though is to go with the
stricter opinion given that the OU is relied upon by many right across
the spectrum. I think this is a good policy for a Kashrus organisation
that wants to be trusted across the world by everybody.

Tangentially, On a related issue, there is the question of Benedictine
where there is also possibly added brandy. The LR used to have it on his
table at Farbrengens and drink it. That then stopped. Rabbi Moshe Gutnick
of Sydney, wrote to the company and tried to be 'Mesiach Lefi Toomo'
or perhaps even more than that, by pretending he knew some people with
an allergy to wine/wine derived/infused alcohol(e.g. by adding brandy)
and asked Benedictine whether they could guarantee there was absolutely
no wine used in production. I remember thinking that this was an issue
that was Efshar Liverooray, and wondering why nobody seemed to actually
do so. There was a rumour that Rav Lande of Bnei Brak allows it. I have
not seen this in writing and therefore don't take it seriously. Here is
what I have found out though. I found this OLD article

http://www.crcweb.org/kosher_articles/Benedictine.php

It seems to imply that Benedictine (*non B&B*) is okay. I have never
had it (and I'm not a Lubavitcher :-)

The cRc app on my iPhone doesn't list Benedictine. What is the ruling
of the cRc and how does this relate to the article I posted?

I do not understand why R Msika doesn't drink *non* B&B. Is this because
of the cRc comments or is it because he only drinks Mehadrin with a
Mashgiach at least Yotze VeNuchnas, or is it political, or a personal
Chumra/Maris Ayin as they look similar. I was then advised by the cRc
that they were revisiting Benedictine. I received a recent email which
stated as follows:

"We did some work on this a few months ago, but I honestly cannot remember
what we found at the time. As I vaguely recall, *nothing had changed
since the original article was written*, and we were going to stand by
our original recommendation."

If they say that Coca Cola is okay and that is a guarded secret, I can't
get my head around why Benedictine is still seemingly such a mystery
story. In Melbourne, the central respected Kashrus Agency, Kosher
Australia, under Rabbi Mottel Gutnick, which is trusted by the OU and
the Badatz etc do not allow Benedictine (and he's a Lubavitcher). Yet,
I see other Yeraim and Shleimim drink it.

I just updated the cRc app database on my phone, and it says that *ALL
B&B* liqueurs are not recommended. In addition it has a *separate*
entry for Benedictine which also says Not recommended.

Personally, I have never drunk Benedictine.



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