[Avodah] N'kom L'aynaynu

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Thu, Oct 06, 2016 at 06:26:07AM +0000, Ezra Chwat wrote:
: This is not the place to expound on the value of Divine vengeance on the
: persecutors of Israel, as this is well expressed in Torah, reiterated in
: Neviim and Ketuvim, reinforced in Hazal and re-emphasized in Kabbalah. I
: will also avoid lecturing on the most basic Hillul Hashem when such
: vengeance is lacking (eg- Sam I 17; Kings II 19; Ezek. 20).
...
: This is not a Hashkafa issue. The centrality of vengeance in a
: nation-against-nation attrition can be felt only to the degree that one
: see's himself in the geographic and epochal context of a nation. I can
: see how, (Moshe Rabeinu aside), immediate vengeance is less of a value
: in the context of individual attrition. Needless to say, between Jews we
: are commanded to refrain from any vengeance (Lev. 19) except for murder
: (Num. 35).

You shifted from Divine Vengence to what we are commanded to do.

C.f. "Hashem yi[n]qom damo".

Divine Vengence shows that the world is running to a plan. Hashem granting
someone success in committing revenge doesn't have to show that any more
than the original offense proved the lack of plan. It is only an indication
to those who are already convinced.

Which is how I understood "le'eineinu".

Moshe didn't only take revenge on the Egyptian, he prevented the Egyptian
from killing the next guy. There is a functional element here that goes
beyond neqamah.

So I do not see how one has to imply the other. R Chaim Markowitz asked
in 2004 whether there is an issur neqamah WRT nachriim, but didn't get
an answer. ("Lo siqom ... es benei amekha" wouldn't be it.)

I found the Rambam De'os 7 makes lo siqom out to be about the damage to
the noqeim. (Thus its inclusion in dei'os.) "Ra'ui le'adam lihuos ma'vir
al kol divrei ha'olam" because the mevinim know it's all hevel vehavai
and not worh taking neqamah over. Which would argue against taking
neqamah on nakhriim. I am also wondering if it's relevant that 7:7 has
"hanoqeim es chaveiro", whereas 7:8 is "vekhein kol hanoteir le'echad
miYisrael". What does "chaveiro" mean in Rambam-speak?

GCT!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Friendship is like stone. A stone has no value,
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Fax: (270) 514-1507                  - Rav Mordechai of Lechovitz